AA Contract UPHELD!!

[aeolian]

Good Luck AA Pilots.....nobody will ever accuse you of taking it lying down.

Ya...they stood up and bent over.

 

[aa73]

Ya...they stood up and bent over.

Nice try Mr Management Wannabe....

The fact remains that even IF our contract gets abrogated and we get an amended 1113, we are right back in to negotiations upon BK exit or merger. And we WILL prevail at that time with an ILC.

AA Pilots are as UNIFIED as we've ever been, and ready to fight to the death.

Had we voted Yes to the POS TA, we'd be stuck with the industry's WORST contract for up to 10 years. But I'm sure you knew that, too.

Now go live on your knees and vote Yes on anything that comes your way. We, the pilots of AA, will carry your water for the foreseeable future. You're welcome.

 

[Turtle21]

( Yeah, whatever, with "The Judge". He is just an individual with a Brain who made a logical decision. )

The Heroes here are the Pilots of American Airlines....Who FINALLY SAID..."NO".

God Bless The 61 percent.

PRECEDENT SETTING.

A guideline for Case Law and Weak Dick Airlline Pilots for the rest of the foreseeable future....

Take great pride Gentleman and Ladies of American Airlines.

YOU have made great history...and for that, we are all collectively, in your Debt.


Thank You,


Whine

Amen. No one will ever accuse them of being ALPA pilots. :lol:

 

[BentOver]

However it turns out, atleast a precedence has been set for future airline bankruptcies..


Haven't followed the AA BK or contract talks, but having the judge rule in the pilots favor is certainly better than not being ruled in favor

 

[Jim]

Amen. No one will ever accuse them of being ALPA pilots. :lol:

just as no one will ever accuse USAPA of having integrity.

Congrats AA pilots and APA. Hopefully you will win the war too.

 

[aeolian]

Nice try Mr Management Wannabe....

The fact remains that even IF our contract gets abrogated and we get an amended 1113, we are right back in to negotiations upon BK exit or merger. And we WILL prevail at that time with an ILC.

AA Pilots are as UNIFIED as we've ever been, and ready to fight to the death.

Had we voted Yes to the POS TA, we'd be stuck with the industry's WORST contract for up to 10 years. But I'm sure you knew that, too.

Now go live on your knees and vote Yes on anything that comes your way. We, the pilots of AA, will carry your water for the foreseeable future. You're welcome.

I suspect you are angry. And therefore, you're not thinking clearly about the consequences of your choices. Good luck with that extra water. You didn't have to carry it, but you choose to. Enjoy.

 

[aeolian]

just as no one will ever accuse USAPA of having integrity.

Congrats AA pilots and APA. Hopefully you will win the war too.

10-4 on the first point..

Good luck with the second, they are off to a poor start, a is USAPA I guess.

 

[caseyd]

AA Pilots are as UNIFIED as we've ever been, and ready to fight to the death.

69% to 31%

Had we voted Yes to the POS TA, we'd be stuck with the industry's WORST contract for up to 10 years.

I did know that. Now you will be stuck with a worse one.

Now go

Use my head for something other than a hat rack. Oh I forgot, you don't wear a hat.

 

[flygirlqt]

This denial is without prejudice to remedying the two defects identified in this Opinion and submitting a new application under Section 1113. Debtors’ counsel shall settle an order on three days’ notice.
.

While I understand a lot of you are happy, I do not get a good feeling from the order and managements ability to ultimately prevail on their 1113 filing.

But I applaud APA for standing their ground.

 

[blackjack]

I have to agree. Battle won, but ultimately the war will be lost. BK rules always favor the company and creditors.

and then they can strike, AMR will then taste winning a battle and losing a war and US Air will look even better to creditors than horton. a prudent AMR would get real and negotiate.

 

[xjhawk]

( Uh....Mods? )

Is it possible to get the Kids off here that have no understanding as to what this means historically?

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and I respect that...But, C'mon.


Whatever....Those who understand this WILL, and those who don't... WON'T.

I'm almost too old to care.... but, it's a Great Day in "Airline Town".

Love,

YKW

if you are talking about me I think I have been around the block a few times and know what is going on in this industry. Furlough ,contract negotiation, loss of fleet, displacement, base displacement, acquisition, another acquisition, merger (screwed on seniority), loss of two fleets and another bankruptcy. Watch who your sorry ass is calling a kid-and go cry to the mods about your own stupid opinions. I know where mine is coming from-experience-not some self entitlement *********************************** who looks down on those of us who have been waiting 10 plus years at the regionals to get hired at a company that matters. go ahead and PM me and we will talk-maybe I can talk some sense into you

 

[xjhawk]

yeah, two bankruptcies-you heard that right. When you get done with your first one, come talk to me about experience in this matter.

 

[aa73]

For all you naysayers, rant and rave all you want about how we screwed up. I stand by how I voted. I'll repost what I posted on another MB:

In a nutshell: we have elected to stand up to management's (and previous managements) "carte blanche" to totally decimate every facet of pilot contracts using the BK trump card.

So far, we have won a couple of victories. We are under no illusions whatsoever that the court almost always favors management in BK cases. This will probably happen to us as well. But at least we are fighting and delaying it as much as we can - UNLIKE almost every other pilot group before us, who all took negotiated deals. Sorry, but our negotiated deal was a death sentence.

At least now, if they abrogate our contract, yes we end up with a crappier deal SHORT TERM but we go right back in to negotiating for an industry leading contract the minute they exit BK or merge.

As opposed to voting Yes on the industry's WORST most concessionary contract ever locked in for 10 years. Almost everyone saw how overreaching it was.

For those of you who thought we should have voted Yes, it begs the question: How bad does a TA have to be in order for you to vote No? For some of you, it's an irrelevant question: your answer would be, "It doesn't matter, you are in BK, you HAVE to take whatever deal they give you."

The above sentence, my friends, is why this profession is in the toilet.

We just took a stand against that.

Signed, a proud AA Pilot
73

 

[enuffalready]

( Uh....Mods? )

Is it possible to get the Kids off here that have no understanding as to what this means historically?

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and I respect that...But, C'mon.


Whatever....Those who understand this WILL, and those who don't... WON'T.

I'm almost too old to care.... but, it's a Great Day in "Airline Town".

Love,

YKW

Kids? what are you talking about? Read it yourself. Judge ruled company negotiated in Good faith and apa didnt. Judge ruled in favor of management in ALL clauses accept furlough and code share. Look for company to refile those 2 before the weekend. Again, not sure what historical reference you are speaking? please do yourself a favor and go back and read what the judge ruled before you pop the corks

 

[MINIME]

For all you naysayers, rant and rave all you want about how we screwed up. I stand by how I voted. I'll repost what I posted on another MB:

In a nutshell: we have elected to stand up to management's (and previous managements) "carte blanche" to totally decimate every facet of pilot contracts using the BK trump card.

So far, we have won a couple of victories. We are under no illusions whatsoever that the court almost always favors management in BK cases. This will probably happen to us as well. But at least we are fighting and delaying it as much as we can - UNLIKE almost every other pilot group before us, who all took negotiated deals. Sorry, but our negotiated deal was a death sentence.

At least now, if they abrogate our contract, yes we end up with a crappier deal SHORT TERM but we go right back in to negotiating for an industry leading contract the minute they exit BK or merge.

As opposed to voting Yes on the industry's WORST most concessionary contract ever locked in for 10 years. Almost everyone saw how overreaching it was.

For those of you who thought we should have voted Yes, it begs the question: How bad does a TA have to be in order for you to vote No? For some of you, it's an irrelevant question: your answer would be, "It doesn't matter, you are in BK, you HAVE to take whatever deal they give you."

The above sentence, my friends, is why this profession is in the toilet.

We just took a stand against that.

Signed, a proud AA Pilot
73

Right on brother....

If more pilots thought and were as informed as you sir, we would probably be doing better in this profession. It's clear that you understand the court system and where you stand. You can see beyond and understand that even after a court sponsored abrogation, not all is lost. The company will have to negotiate after a BK exit. It may not be quick nor painless, but hopefully not ten years. Parker is still out there, he may still be of some assistace.

You sent management a clear message that you are paying attention and understand your position. And, that you will ALSO use the system to better your stance. It takes courage, wit, and intelligence to accomplish something of this magnitude. As of the last few years, management has come to expect little resistance and intelligence from us. Our lack of understanding of the the game and our clear disadvantage within the confines of governing laws have been very profitable for management.

Easy for me to say from where I sit, but thank you for your stance. Hopefully most of us can learn something from you.

 

[Flopgut]

If you don't think this is a significant win for pilot labor, you have not read Sun Tzu's Art of War.

 

[ironspud]

Only temporary. Even the AA FA union is re-iterating that the judge only tossed 2 elements of the 1113. That will change on Friday when AMR does a fast rewrite and repetitions with the judge. APFA is recommending strongly that the FA's approve their TA. One comment from their hotline says it all: To reiterate, the remainder of the court's 100+ page decision validated each of American's arguments for its business plan and dismantled each of the unions' cases against it.

 

[enuffalready]

If you don't think this is a significant win for pilot labor, you have not read Sun Tzu's Art of War.

umm, wow....did you even read the ruling? Jackie Chan?

 

[BoilerUP]

As Kenny Rogers once sang, "You gotta know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em, know when to walk away, and know when to run."

That said, sometimes you gotta make a stand and fight the good fight, even if you know you're going to lose.

AA pilots aren't stupid - they've seen the last ten years of airline after airline go through the bankruptcy process and labor contracts be gutted by pilots choosing to ratify known concessions rather than unknown ones forced upon them. AA pilots knew the risks to their CBA AND the likelihood of a judge granting management's motion to abrogate it, and yet they made their collective decision to vote down the LBFO anyway.

AA pilots won a small victory in this case; they'll likely face a major defeat in the coming week or two and they know it. And yet, that victory sets a precedent of labor winning *something* in court, which to this point has been pretty rare. It puts pressure on Horton from not only a labor side, but the financial side.

Funny...pilots take concessions and other pilots give them hell, with many crying out for SOMEBODY to take a stand. And when AA pilots collectively say NO, COME AND TAKE IT to their management, other pilots still give them hell...

 

[Always deferred]

It's hard to argue with voting down the TA if only in the sense that AA pilots avoid 6-10 years of being locked into it. At least they have a fighting chance at renegotiating some terms coming out of BK, though that remains to be seen. Hopefully, the next deal closes the bitter gap between labor and AA mgmt and the company can move forward in some sort of harmony.

For those of you celebrating, give it a week or so and then see what happens. Hopefully you'll still be celebrating but unfortunately my gut tells me otherwise.