AA Contract Proposal

[amcnd]

What am I missing here? Does american fly any aircraft under 125 seats? And its a very small increase in pay but how is it concessionary?

They did.. The Folkers.

 

[TWA Dude]

Does american fly any aircraft under 125 seats?

They have Airbus narrow-body planes on order. A typical seating scheme for the A319 is F12Y112 which equals 124 seats.

 

[Abernathy]

Didn't UA strike in '85 over a proposed B-Scale?

 

[C-150ETOPS]

What am I missing here? Does american fly any aircraft under 125 seats? And its a very small increase in pay but how is it concessionary?

Google "what's a dollar worth" and plug in in few numbers to learn the concept why a small pay raise might actually be a paycut.

Another hidden nuclear weapon is the metrics, that AA controls, that go as far to eliminate all trip rigs and fly FAR's if their block hour per pilot goal isn't met. They control that number. They aren't even scheduling the available monthly max today. The way I figure is that I can vote for their offer, and give myself FAR's and no rigs, or I can turn it down, and get a BK Judge to give me FAR's and no trip rigs along with wiping out Seniors Management's 5% stock ownership in the ship they drove onto the rocks. I'll never pass up the opportunity to pick the deal that gives me a little more satisfaction.


$139 an hour to fly A319 Captain? Don't overlook the fact that they offered the rampers $20+/hour to clean it along with their month vacation and health care, and the offer to the Flight Attendants of $54/hour for 3 of them to work a few minutes each leg. That's $160+/hour along with their month vacation, retirement and health care. They also proposed paying the second year FO $55/hour, the new B-Scale.

AA pilots aren't the problem but will be the easy scapegoat.

 

[rudder]

If you AA guys were smart you would say 'NO' to incumbent management and start a process to identify the potential new owners of AMR and work with them on a post CH11 plan.

 

[CheapFlyer]

If FA's are making $54/hour and cleaners are at $20/hour, then I would go Ch. 11 if I was CEO.

 

[xjhawk]

I have no horse in this race-but I am all for our industry drawing a line in the sand and doing the right thing. When these execs are taking in huge salaries and bonus's and are the cause of the demise of a company-they need to go. I do not think Bankruptcy will push them out and punish them-look at the other companies that went into Ch11 and see the money they got for leaving..... As someone previous has said, it is better not to go into bankruptcy with a lower pay and bennies since the judges and the attorneys are all too stupid to look at the forest for the trees.

FYI-I am a mesaba pilot who is seeing most of our 4-5 year FO's see upgrades going to Colgan FO's with 1-2 years at the company because some attorney was an idiot when he put a minutes worth of thought into his decision.

 

[alaskaplt]

Well, let's see..... for starters, they are proposing a b-scale rate of $139/hr for the A319 CA... meanwhile, Spirit A319 CA $164/hr...

Yikes. That's insane! And they honestly think that will pass!

 

[TWA Dude]

No, they don't. It's all part of their game. Think about it: all the buzz in the past month about a possible TA with the pilots has originated from AMR. They created it and now they're the buzz kill. Their intent might be an obvious pre-pack Chap 11 or it might be something else. Regardless, it will be good for AMR executives and bad for employees.

 

[ackattacker]

Sounds to me like what we've all assumed all along.

They're going BK, they need to deflect the blame. Hence the very public issuance of a proposed contract with "pay increases" all over the news headlines. Then the greedy pilots will turn it down due to the onerous small print, and they'll go bankrupt all thanks to those no good greedy pilots and their out of touch union! Bonuses all around!

 

[waveflyer]

Bingo ack- and +1 to all who see through it-
Btw, where's that "liberal/leftist" media now? This is what OCCUPY is all about once you get past the drakes.
You can't grant the type of raises and bonus's AMR execs have granted themselves AFTER huge worker concessions, and then go after more concessions-
It's the flimsiest crap I've seen airline execs pull in a long time.

As a Wn pilot- am really pulling for AA pilots.
I've noticed the very small beginnings of mgmt here wanting our pilots to cut pay in return for growth- we need help with that bar.

 

[HA25]

Well, let's see. We saved their a$$es from BK in 2003 with the current POS contract we have now. And today - SEVEN YEARS LATER - they're right back where they were in 2003. Of course! It's the pilots' fault!

If that doesn't spell MANAGEMENT INCOMPETENCE, I don't know what does. Everyone knows they are headed to BK anyway. I'll be darned if I'm giving one more iota to those goons. Let the Judge take it all away!

NO to Contract Offer
YES to Strike
FUPM!!

bravo aa73......hope there is a lot of unity on that there.

 

[DonVerita]

Well, let's see..... for starters, they are proposing a b-scale rate of $139/hr for the A319 CA... meanwhile, Spirit A319 CA $164/hr...

That Spirit $164/hr. pay rate is at Year 15.

Are you saying that at Year 15 an American A-319 Capt. would have a $139/hr. pay rate under the b-scale? Or is that at an earlier year?

 

[shadesofBS]

I'm surprised they haven't proposed a B-scale for the Airbus with the provision that the airplanes are staffed with stapled jetblue pilots.

 

[Fubijaakr]

Unless the B-scale is permanent, most F/Os will be out of the B-scale window when they upgrade.

 

[shadesofBS]

B-scale for 10 years. Staple the jetblue pilots to fly the b-scale (make it lame enough that even an AA FO wouldn't fly it) and no training or giant flush and bump.

 

[rjacobs]

Realistically besides the 170/190 and possibly the A319(depending on seating configuration) what other aircraft would be on this proposed B-scale?

Also, what aircraft has management seriously considered getting(again besides the A319) that would be on the B-scale? How many A319's are they talking about getting out of their total order? Are they talking about yanking the CRJ7's from Eagle? Talking about buying 170's/190's/CRJ7's/9's/10's/etc...?

Im just trying to understand if this would really affect anybody or if people are getting worked up about a B-scale for nothing.

 

[Bringupthebird]

Im just trying to understand if this would really affect anybody or if people are getting worked up about a B-scale for nothing.

If you outsource the domestic side of your operation, then I suppose it wouldn't affect any AA pilot, other than the fact they would be furloughed. That would affect them.

 

[rjacobs]

If you outsource the domestic side of your operation, then I suppose it wouldn't affect any AA pilot, other than the fact they would be furloughed. That would affect them.

I think you missed my point.

If the APA is going to capture these aircraft(70+ seats) in their scope clause and have a B scale for them, yet AA has no plans to actually acquire said aircraft(except possibly a small number of A319's), than does it really affect anybody?

I could see if AA had an outstanding order for 250 E190's or all 260 Airbus orders were for A319's that nobody would want this, but does it really affect anybody?

 

[Draginass]

The company's pay "raise" proposal is a fake and actually a pay cut when you see that they want to stop night and international pay. Also lower the guarantee for reserves.

And then they want to lock in the B-scale for the A319 and below for TEN YEARS or two negotiating cycles (which in AA dog years is about 12).

Start with a crappy commuter caliber rate for a narrow body airliner, then let inflation erode it for TEN YEARS and see what you have.

The company's contract proposal is ludicrous, in NO way realistic or serious, and has NO chance of even being put to a vote.