AA Avoids Bankruptcy

[jetexas]

Good point 80drvr.
Thing is: we lose every major arbitration (the latest one under quite mysterious circumstances). We can't strike. 'Sick outs' don't work.

Our union has tried/is trying every legal option to improve things.
AMR really has us by the b*lls here and they know it.
Our biggest mistake was to sign that 16 year deal. Unfortunately,
it looks like we have to live with it for a decade longer.

I don't think quitting would get the message across to management either. There's too many guys out there that would step right in and hold the door for us on the way out.

 

[Draginass]

If this TA passes and the furloughs start, Carty's going to come back, force more furloughs, and go after pensions. Predict a slashed A fund and elimination of the B-fund. An incremental attack, a la US Air's Siegle.

I'll bet the "plan" is to migrate all domestic flying to Eagle. You watch.

 

[AA717driver]

Be careful what you wish for...

If Sup W dies, with it goes the flow through. Sure, Eagle doesn't want AA furloughees to take the new ERJ's, that's understandable. But you should have thought about that when you agreed to the flowthrough.

If I was a AA newhire, I would now really resent the 400 some Eagle people that have seniority numbers senior to me. If you're going to get pissy about the flowback, we can get pissy about the flowthroughs.

As far as being hated by Eagle pilots goes, I've been in this business almost 20 years. I've been through the ARW-MVA and TWA-OZA merger aftermath and now I'm living with the AA-TWA merger. I've got pretty thick skin.

Cheers, TC

 

[jetexas]

Sure, Eagle doesn't want AA furloughees to take the new ERJ's, that's understandable. But you should have thought about that when you agreed to the flowthrough.

Huh?? This TA has nothing to do with the "flowthrough/flowback". It is AA pilots coming in 'en masse' to take all future slots on 50+seat RJ's and the CRJ. The "flowback" has been followed to the letter thus far. This TA is merely an end run around that agreement.
There were very high expectations in both the flowthrough and flowback agreements. AA and AE both found out the hard way that there were glaring deficiencies from what was promised and from what actually happened.

 

[Draginass]

What does the contract say? If AE ALPA thinks 50+ seat RJ and CRJ flying belongs to AE exclusively, then they need to grieve it.

 

[AA717driver]

The flowback hasn't worked as advertised. AE put a 3000 hr minimum on people allowed to fly CA on the ERJ. That benched a bunch of fighter pilots who were just hired at AA.

I agree with Draginass, no one said who owns the 50 seaters. Who says those airplanes won't go to AX?

Besides, APA wanted to work out a reasonable solution to "onelist". ALPA told them to pound sand. I was there when onelist was debated at a APA BOD meeting. In no way was it an attempt to grab Eagle seats.

Respectfully, TC

 

[bluesideup1]

"HYPOCRYTES" for the last 8 years most AA pilots cried that eagle was taking their flying, that the RJ or "Jungle Jets" as the APA called it was not anything that a respectable AA pilot would be caught dead in. Now you turn around and have the audacity to believe that you are entitled to take our jobs, take our routes, take our planes just because your airline is brocken. The last time I remember and AA pilots have said it many times when a controler calls AE and AA "company" is that the AA guy tells the contoller "American doesn't fly any RJ's". So let me remind you AA doesn't fly any RJ's and just like I was told when I wanted to fly a super 80 "GO GET AN APPLICATION AND GET HIRED JUST LIKE EVERYONE ELSE" so if you feel the need to come fly a RJ then by all means send me your address and I will get you the application to fill out because we at Eagle are not and were never intedended to be your furglough fodder!!!!!!!!

PS it truely takes big balls to ask for your 1-3 year AA guys to come back as RJ captains when it takes a minimum of 9 years here at Eagle to get to that same spot. Guess its time to take down that unity poster.

AAssholes

 

[eaglefly]

The Eagle contract DOES INDEED say that we have the rights to the aircraft and routes CURRENTLY operated by Eagle. AMR ADMITTED as much in their "one-list" proposal (READ IT AGAIN).

Some of these hypocrites are angry we didn't roll over and accept a mainline lopsided deal to benefit THEIR pilots.

Wait a minute ?

How could we not have accepted their garbage deal ?

BECAUSE THEY NEVER EVEN CARED ENOUGH TO ASK US OR INVOLVE US IN THE PROCESS.

For the record the APA CONCEDED these aircraft (RJ's) to AMR not us in exchange for Suppliment W/Letter 3 provisions.

ANYTHING outside Suppliment W/Letter 3 is nothing more than a last ditch greedy airplane grab attempt that is in VIOLATION of our contract.

ONCE AGAIN, AA pilots show their TRUE colors by shamelessly justifying ANYTHING that benefits them, TOTALLY disregarding our contractual rights and even our right to exist.

There reply ?

Don't like it, then grieve it.

Why on god's green earth our MEC and pilot group EVER attempted to mend fences with these assholes, I'll never know.

One thing is for sure. Our pilots WILL NEVER trust or accept them in the future.

F.A.P.A. - F%&K APA !

 

[TWA Dude]

Hey TC (AA717Driver), welcome aboard! C&R wasn't enough fun for you so you had to branch out, huh? Enjoy the fracas.

AS

 

[jetexas]

Besides, APA wanted to work out a reasonable solution to "onelist". ALPA told them to pound sand

Hmmm. reasonable solution?

From the APA merge proposal..
.."Company could hire into either commuter supplement or mainline vacancies" - ie, Eagle pilots, with AA numbers, could be trumped for jobs at mainline AA by folks coming in off the street.
NOT very reasonable.

It was ALPA (Eagle MEC) who asked APA for years prior to 9/11 to work out a "one list". Things were good, so APA would'nt hear of it.
Post 9/11, APA brought forth a proposal slanted heavily towards APA and now ALPA is the bad guy?

 

[JohnDoe]

Quote:

"If the TA is passed by the APA: The Eagle pilots will walk off the job."



Yeah, that will happen.........

 

[Cleared Direct]

The facts are that AMR has once again succeeded in dividing two labor groups who they feared were getting to close.

The business model at AA and other airlines is not working as it used to, and you can't come along and all of a sudden blame labor for all that has happened. AMR management has waited too long to try and fix the situation and we all lose if we don't come up with a better business model. Management is using the situation to divide labor and get the lowest bidder of labor contracts.

When APA was backed into a corner they asked for anything they could get for the soon to be furloughed pilots. They are representing APA pilots not ALPA pilots. Unfortunately they have made the choice to negotiate with AMR for RJ jobs knowing how it would negatively affect the Eagle pilots. This would not be so unexpected if it were not for the fact that APA and EGL/ALPA have been cooperating to combat management's attempts to outsource AMR jobs to outside lowest bidders. They realized that the unity thing was probably not going to become a reality in the current business environment, so they went for the table scraps for their future forloughees.

If the TA is approved you could have a situation where it is actually cheaper for AMR to operate RJs with AA pilots who are paid the same Eagle rates but at 2nd or 3rd year pay instead of 10+ year pay.

Together AA pilots, Eagle pilots, and now American Connection pilots we will help AMR management drive down pilot contacts to the lowest possible point. We have no one to blame except ourselves for watching this happen through out the industry.