A very effective alternative to a strike

[pilotyip]

exsky, yes they would. You can always get a management job doing anything with a Harvard MBA, they would just move to another $XXM job

 

[Benhuntn]

NWA seems to have a pretty good scam going. They have canceled 600 flights in the last 4 days due to an unusually high sick call rate by the pilots.

 

[DougCorp-9]

Sorry but I was brought up with a different work ethic and I won't compromise that for anybody or anything. If you want a raise then you put your best foot forward and show that you can do your job better than the next guy. That's the way it's done in the real world. This us vs. them mentallity, and we gotta make em bleed to show we mean business is one of the big reasons organized labor is a dying breed in this country.

We sit here and organize slowdowns etc. that do nothing but screw our passengers for our own personal gain. Then we picket and expect the publics sympathy for our cause ?? Give me a break.

Let us know when the VP of flight ops just gives you a raise because you are doing a good job. How long have you been in this industry junior?

 

[twepilot]

. How long have you been in this industry junior?[/quote]

Classic Flightinfo.

RV

 

[BOOZENEWS]

When its contract time and if your looking for a lousy raise and horrible work rules, the above work ethic is the way to go.

OK then, well maybe I'd then give them a few weeks notice and state in no uncertain terms that IF they don't reach an agreement in XXX days THEN we well use more fuel. In other words give them a chance to do the right thing but make it clear what will happen if they do not! Pretty simple!

 

[DrewBlows]

exsky, yes they would. You can always get a management job doing anything with a Harvard MBA, they would just move to another $XXM job

A significant number of pilots could replace their income and improve their quality of life immediately at Home Depot, Lowes, or Menards. Most pilots have a college education, and many have the wherewithal and/or experience to excel in the corporate world. Management's threats to shut down companies over what pilots make is laughable. If corporate America wants to hire executives who take profitable companies into bankruptcy, we have much bigger problems in this country than airline pilot's pay and work rules.

 

[vtwo]

when the company can no longer control it's employee's it will fail. one way to keep control is to keep them happy. IE. work rules, QOL, pay and benefits.
with out the back bone of the company (employee's) the the mind ( managers) of the company is worthless.

 

[RJP]

Also run the APU instead of using ground for AC and elec when at the gate.

APU? We'd cave for some of those.

 

[pilotyip]

Drewblows I go back to an old post. My brother a mid level manager with GM does not make 6 figures, he has master's in business and nearly 30 years of service at GM. It is considered a good job by most. Airline pilots make more than that. Maybe this thread, or someplace else there was news article that said pilots now have to live on 182K/ yr. in stead of 250K/kr. 182K is still a fantastic income. Few pilots could go anywhere else and make that money.

 

[thruthemurk]

..... Maybe this thread, or someplace else there was news article that said pilots now have to live on 182K/ yr. in stead of 250K/kr. 182K is still a fantastic income. Few pilots could go anywhere else and make that money.

Including over 90% of airline jobs currently available. That 182K number is an absolute crock - MOST airline pilots flying today will never see it.

Lets include all of the regional jobs which now comprise (Only a GUESS) as much as 20,000 of the total - the vast majority make less than 100,000 with the majority less than 50,000.

Excluding SW, FEDEX and UPS (<10,000 pilots) most of the majors pay junk for the first several years. 10 year narrowbody FO's at UAL, AA, USAir, NW all make less than 100,000.

Sad but true
Murk

 

[pilotyip]

but all the pilots who were bypassed by or elected not to pursue UAL, AA, USAir, NW all make well over 100K flying as narrow body Captain at JB, AirTran, Frontier, and Spirit. If they are stuck after 10 yrs as a narrow body F/O there were other opportunites available. This is still a great career if you like to be around airplanes.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

SaabSlime,

As a pilot’s how do you measure that you’re doing your the job better job than the next guy?? Does it come down to a funny PA, a better approach, a smooth landing or burning less gas? Do those add up to a better pay rate?

I don’t know how long you’ve been in the industry, but your nice guy approach will get you killed at the negotiating table. We tried that approach here at APA the last 10 years and it’s resulted in a race for the bottom. Luckily we are now cleaning house.

Management will give you a nice big smile, put a big arm around you, and then knife you in the back with their other hand.

KNOW THE RULES OF OUR GAME:

1) Management and labor are not on the same team. We have different goals and are responsible to different groups of people.
2) Management wants you to do your job for less – even now at our current rock bottom prices if you let them.
3) Management will never willingly sit down and give you a raise. They only respond to fiscal and public pressure.
4) Playing nice guy results in longer and longer contracts. The end result of this is keeping it out of your pocket and in their as long as possible.
5) Management is adept at playing labor groups against one another.

Never forget that you are labor – not management. The next few years will get ugly as we try to get back what we lost. You need to take off the rose colored glasses. Unionism might be dying in other parts of the work force but it is very much alive in our industry.

Please read – Flying The Line.

AA767AV8TOR

In order to get back what we lost we need to add the final element. The lost element. Politics.

In real estate it is location. In labor/management it is politics: local and national.

If you do not engage in the political arenea then you are wearing a ball gag and leather zipper mask.

The most effective method at the negotiating table is a strike. To shut the company down and stop the flow of cash.

Until you grasp this concept management will pull your gimp leash until you can't stand it anymore then they will yank it some more....

Here is the national:
There are three members on the national mediation board. One is pro labor the other two are pro company. It is 2 against one in favor of management.

The members of the nmb are appointed by the President of the USA.

If you want to defend and protect this profession: If you want to still try and make this a career then we need a president that will appoint two pro labor members to the nmb.

Here is the local:
When your union leadership conducts an LEC meeting, then you attend. When they communicate you educate and ask questions and offer ideas.

When your pilot group does informational picketing you show up with a dusted off hat. You don't come up with weak excuses, like I need a nap, I have an appointment, I am buying a car/house, my family needs me... unless of course the status quo is fine. If you like the ball gag, zipper mask and leash then be the gimps we are....

 

[Clyde Frog]

SaabSlime,

As a pilot’s how do you measure that you’re doing your the job better job than the next guy?? Does it come down to a funny PA, a better approach, a smooth landing or burning less gas? Do those add up to a better pay rate?

I don’t know how long you’ve been in the industry, but your nice guy approach will get you killed at the negotiating table. We tried that approach here at APA the last 10 years and it’s resulted in a race for the bottom. Luckily we are now cleaning house.

Management will give you a nice big smile, put a big arm around you, and then knife you in the back with their other hand.

KNOW THE RULES OF OUR GAME:

1) Management and labor are not on the same team. We have different goals and are responsible to different groups of people.
2) Management wants you to do your job for less – even now at our current rock bottom prices if you let them.
3) Management will never willingly sit down and give you a raise. They only respond to fiscal and public pressure.
4) Playing nice guy results in longer and longer contracts. The end result of this is keeping it out of your pocket and in their as long as possible.
5) Management is adept at playing labor groups against one another.

Never forget that you are labor – not management. The next few years will get ugly as we try to get back what we lost. You need to take off the rose colored glasses. Unionism might be dying in other parts of the work force but it is very much alive in our industry.

Please read – Flying The Line.

AA767AV8TOR

Excellent post, i couldn't agree more.

Those of you with the high morals and work ethic need to wake the hell up. Hard work and dedication are NOT rewarded in this industry.

Management at ANY airline is not going to spend one extra cent to fix a problem that does not exist.

Want a fair contract? No favors, no waivers, no extra trips and write up mechanical issues when necessary.

 

[Clyde Frog]

things like this make my blood boil. Rogue idiots working counter to the work of their own union. What do you expect the response will be from mgmnt. when you ask for a raise?

RV

Don't you work for airtran?

How's that tactic working for you guys? Has the company opened up their wallets to reward you for pushing all those wheelchairs, taxiing on one engine and calling operations for service items?

 

[737 Pylt]

Hmmmmm......Let's see......
Walks like a chuck, quacks, definately like a chuck.....Slams Air Tran, definately like a chuck.....
Ding Ding Ding Ding......
Welcome back chuck/einstein/lawman

Don't you work for airtran?

Don't you work for Midwest?
HA HA HA HA HA HA

Based on the following, you better PRAY Air Tran bails your pathetic airline from the trash dumpster!

Midwest reported second-quarter earnings of $4.9 million, a 44.6% drop from the $8.8 million profit posted during the same period a year ago.

How's that tactic working for you guys? Has the company opened up their wallets to reward you for pushing all those wheelchairs, taxiing on one engine and calling operations for service items?

I'd say its helping out their bottom numbers alot better than Midwest.....
But then again, you'll just deny being chucky! Eh sport?

737