A very effective alternative to a strike

[pilotyip]

but all the pilots who were bypassed by or elected not to pursue UAL, AA, USAir, NW all make well over 100K flying as narrow body Captain at JB, AirTran, Frontier, and Spirit. If they are stuck after 10 yrs as a narrow body F/O there were other opportunites available. This is still a great career if you like to be around airplanes.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

SaabSlime,

As a pilot’s how do you measure that you’re doing your the job better job than the next guy?? Does it come down to a funny PA, a better approach, a smooth landing or burning less gas? Do those add up to a better pay rate?

I don’t know how long you’ve been in the industry, but your nice guy approach will get you killed at the negotiating table. We tried that approach here at APA the last 10 years and it’s resulted in a race for the bottom. Luckily we are now cleaning house.

Management will give you a nice big smile, put a big arm around you, and then knife you in the back with their other hand.

KNOW THE RULES OF OUR GAME:

1) Management and labor are not on the same team. We have different goals and are responsible to different groups of people.
2) Management wants you to do your job for less – even now at our current rock bottom prices if you let them.
3) Management will never willingly sit down and give you a raise. They only respond to fiscal and public pressure.
4) Playing nice guy results in longer and longer contracts. The end result of this is keeping it out of your pocket and in their as long as possible.
5) Management is adept at playing labor groups against one another.

Never forget that you are labor – not management. The next few years will get ugly as we try to get back what we lost. You need to take off the rose colored glasses. Unionism might be dying in other parts of the work force but it is very much alive in our industry.

Please read – Flying The Line.

AA767AV8TOR

In order to get back what we lost we need to add the final element. The lost element. Politics.

In real estate it is location. In labor/management it is politics: local and national.

If you do not engage in the political arenea then you are wearing a ball gag and leather zipper mask.

The most effective method at the negotiating table is a strike. To shut the company down and stop the flow of cash.

Until you grasp this concept management will pull your gimp leash until you can't stand it anymore then they will yank it some more....

Here is the national:
There are three members on the national mediation board. One is pro labor the other two are pro company. It is 2 against one in favor of management.

The members of the nmb are appointed by the President of the USA.

If you want to defend and protect this profession: If you want to still try and make this a career then we need a president that will appoint two pro labor members to the nmb.

Here is the local:
When your union leadership conducts an LEC meeting, then you attend. When they communicate you educate and ask questions and offer ideas.

When your pilot group does informational picketing you show up with a dusted off hat. You don't come up with weak excuses, like I need a nap, I have an appointment, I am buying a car/house, my family needs me... unless of course the status quo is fine. If you like the ball gag, zipper mask and leash then be the gimps we are....

 

[Clyde Frog]

SaabSlime,

As a pilot’s how do you measure that you’re doing your the job better job than the next guy?? Does it come down to a funny PA, a better approach, a smooth landing or burning less gas? Do those add up to a better pay rate?

I don’t know how long you’ve been in the industry, but your nice guy approach will get you killed at the negotiating table. We tried that approach here at APA the last 10 years and it’s resulted in a race for the bottom. Luckily we are now cleaning house.

Management will give you a nice big smile, put a big arm around you, and then knife you in the back with their other hand.

KNOW THE RULES OF OUR GAME:

1) Management and labor are not on the same team. We have different goals and are responsible to different groups of people.
2) Management wants you to do your job for less – even now at our current rock bottom prices if you let them.
3) Management will never willingly sit down and give you a raise. They only respond to fiscal and public pressure.
4) Playing nice guy results in longer and longer contracts. The end result of this is keeping it out of your pocket and in their as long as possible.
5) Management is adept at playing labor groups against one another.

Never forget that you are labor – not management. The next few years will get ugly as we try to get back what we lost. You need to take off the rose colored glasses. Unionism might be dying in other parts of the work force but it is very much alive in our industry.

Please read – Flying The Line.

AA767AV8TOR

Excellent post, i couldn't agree more.

Those of you with the high morals and work ethic need to wake the hell up. Hard work and dedication are NOT rewarded in this industry.

Management at ANY airline is not going to spend one extra cent to fix a problem that does not exist.

Want a fair contract? No favors, no waivers, no extra trips and write up mechanical issues when necessary.

 

[Clyde Frog]

things like this make my blood boil. Rogue idiots working counter to the work of their own union. What do you expect the response will be from mgmnt. when you ask for a raise?

RV

Don't you work for airtran?

How's that tactic working for you guys? Has the company opened up their wallets to reward you for pushing all those wheelchairs, taxiing on one engine and calling operations for service items?

 

[737 Pylt]

Hmmmmm......Let's see......
Walks like a chuck, quacks, definately like a chuck.....Slams Air Tran, definately like a chuck.....
Ding Ding Ding Ding......
Welcome back chuck/einstein/lawman

Don't you work for airtran?

Don't you work for Midwest?
HA HA HA HA HA HA

Based on the following, you better PRAY Air Tran bails your pathetic airline from the trash dumpster!

Midwest reported second-quarter earnings of $4.9 million, a 44.6% drop from the $8.8 million profit posted during the same period a year ago.

How's that tactic working for you guys? Has the company opened up their wallets to reward you for pushing all those wheelchairs, taxiing on one engine and calling operations for service items?

I'd say its helping out their bottom numbers alot better than Midwest.....
But then again, you'll just deny being chucky! Eh sport?

737

 

[Clyde Frog]

I could give a crap less about midwest or airtran for that matter. who the hell is chuck?

 

[Angus]

People aren't listening.....

I don’t know how long you’ve been in the industry, but your nice guy approach will get you killed at the negotiating table.

KNOW THE RULES OF OUR GAME:

1) Management and labor are not on the same team. We have different goals and are responsible to different groups of people.
2) Management wants you to do your job for less – even now at our current rock bottom prices if you let them.
3) Management will never willingly sit down and give you a raise. They only respond to fiscal and public pressure.
4) Playing nice guy results in longer and longer contracts. The end result of this is keeping it out of your pocket and in their as long as possible.
5) Management is adept at playing labor groups against one another.
AA767AV8TOR

I edited it down.... but that was so good and so true.... that it needed reposting AGAIN... and AGAIN until every line Pilot out there gets it.

 

[waveflyer]

We don't get paid a market wage. We get paid where we take a stand.

Management coming after regional pilots should teach all of us that we will never make a LOW enough amount.

I find it hilarious that we apologize for $182k/year. 7 years ago- everyone was apologizing for $300k. Now look at us.

The difference between us and a pilot from the 60's is that they DID NOT APOLOGIZE. They made $500k/year in today's money- and never thought once that they didn't earn it. They respected aviation- and thought that an airline pilot deserved a certain station in life. But they also were closer to the 30's when pilots were getting reamed at the expense of the rich. They knew what they had to do. It starts with respecting yourself... Not everyone can do what we do- or would want to. We could double our wage with any decent tip jar- or by adding a dollar per hour to the price of a ticket.

It ends with what Rez said. GET INVOLVED. Your paycheck is not your birthright.

 

[pilotyip]

Here is a great idea lets go back to the ear of regulation in the 60's where those wages exisited. Only thing is about 50% pilot will have to give up there jobs. Great for those who keep them, too bad I got my for those who don't have jobs. I mean after all the passenger has nothing to do with our wages. They are a mandate from some thrid party source.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Here is a great idea lets go back to the ear of regulation in the 60's where those wages exisited. Only thing is about 50% pilot will have to give up there jobs. Great for those who keep them, too bad I got my for those who don't have jobs. I mean after all the passenger has nothing to do with our wages. They are a mandate from some thrid party source.

Yip-de-dip-de-do-

No one is advocating going back to the 60's. Ok, well maybe some are....

The point is to understand that activism is required in the Air Line Pilot Profession.

The new kids coming on line look at me like I've got three heads when I tell them about how intergrated politics is with their new career...

They don't get it....yet. From their perspective, what is the problem... they are shiney brand new first officers soon to be Captains.... Their goals are being obtained.

The sooner they realize that they have to play politics the sooner they and we will be effective...