A Transaction of Mutual Necessity

[COOPERVANE]

I'm smarter than you!! Are not!, Are so!, Are not! etc

Lighten up Francis!!

 

[wil]

So I am commuting on a reconditioned MD-90 with the nice blue leather and this old battle axe says, "What a small aircraft". There is never pleasing the public whether it's replacing turboprops with jets or frequency. The pricing genie is out of the bottle and we are all screwed!

The CRJ has it's place, you mainline guys need to get over it!! We don't dictate where we fly!! I know my place in feeding mainline. But, if the CRJ is not profitable (which I doubt on the numbers I've run, crew cost, fuel burn, etc) neither are the over sold mainline flights! Quit blaming us for Delta's problems. Go ahead and rub one out to Boyd's article but it won't stave off reality that the ice is quickly melting beneath your feet. And, as a regional pilot who wants to move on, I don't take any pleasure in mainline's problems. Cheers, Wil

 

[Tim47SIP]

RJ Costs

No, I don't hate RJs, and I think they have a place in this industry, but they aren't what Fred Greed thought they would be--a panacea for this industry. Businessmen don't really need "frequency" as much as the want lower prices. With lower prices, RJs become too expensive to operate---and larger planes with more seats are needed to compete.

Agreed! But one problem; Why in the heck is the newest Delta Management still procurring RJ's?? What is going on here with your and Boyds assessment concerning the bad, bad RJ?? I consistently read about how the RJ is the high cost dead weight that has cost Delta its doom and gloom, but Delta Management continues to grow the fleet. What gives? I am lost on this one.

 

[Oakum_Boy]

My MD-80 is better than your RJ. So, who gives a farck. Delta Babies whining again. Get ready, cause here come more paycuts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[FDJ2]

Agreed! But one problem; Why in the heck is the newest Delta Management still procurring RJ's?? What is going on here with your and Boyds assessment concerning the bad, bad RJ??

RJ deliveries are sharply down year over year.

I consistently read about how the RJ is the high cost dead weight that has cost Delta its doom and gloom, but Delta Management continues to grow the fleet. What gives? I am lost on this one.

Poor management decision making and the contracts and inertia from the Mullin era. Here's an interesting quote:

Analysts have also noted that almost half of Bombardier's regional-jet order backlog is related to US Airways (OTC BB:UAIRQ.OB - News), Northwest Airlines (NasdaqNM:NWAC - News) and Delta Connection (NYSE:DAL - News), which are facing financial problems.

Wednesday August 24, 11:44 am ET
By Robert Melnbardis

It seems like the companies with the largest RJ orders are the biggest under performers.

 

[KingAirKiddo]

Not all of that can be contributed to mainline pilot wages---l

Bye Bye--General Lee

I think the word you were looking for is "attributed".

Hehe, sorry...just wanted to be the jackass for once

 

[spinproof]

....now back to my original "Jab"...so FDJ2 you're (got to be careful here)"plagiarizing" Your hero's thoughts as if they were your own!!!! Oh how original it is of the both of you ! /QUOTE]

Spin, you're an idiot. First you claim copy right infringement then try to spin yourself out of it. You finally admit your an idiot on copy right law, but now you claim plagiarism. Typical. I never claimed this was my work, the author's name is displayed at the top of the article. I guess you'd just rather attack me then deal with the issues set forth in the article.

Cool your jets!! Just busting on ya and at the same time trying to get "Ms. Kitty" off his campaign!

Irony seems to have been lost on you also! The General seems to be the only one that got it!!!! Then again anyone as savvy as he would be the first to admit it if it were otherwise!

 

[MedFlyer]

Poor management decision making and the contracts and inertia from the Mullin era. Here's an interesting quote:

Analysts have also noted that almost half of Bombardier's regional-jet order backlog is related to US Airways (OTC BB:UAIRQ.OB - News), Northwest Airlines (NasdaqNM:NWAC - News) and Delta Connection (NYSE:DAL - News), which are facing financial problems.

Wednesday August 24, 11:44 am ET
By Robert Melnbardis

It seems like the companies with the largest RJ orders are the biggest under performers.

Actually, USAirways and Northwest have relatively small RJ fleets in relation to their overall size. They were both very slow to procure RJ fleets....hence the backlog of planes.

DL didn't really want all of these 50 seaters, but DALPA wanted it this way. Pilots shouldn't take concessions for new aircraft, but they also shouldn't try to dictate what kinds of planes a company buys.

 

[General Lee]

My MD-80 is better than your RJ. So, who gives a farck. Delta Babies whining again. Get ready, cause here come more paycuts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And maybe the parking of 40 of your RJs. (Delta still retains the leases of 40 of yours) Also, thanks to the 2200 Captains leaving in a little more than a year, I can now hold MD88 Captain. Watch out dudes, I may do it......Pay cut? Not much.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

I think the word you were looking for is "attributed".

Hehe, sorry...just wanted to be the jackass for once

You are right. You got me.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

No, I don't hate RJs, and I think they have a place in this industry, but they aren't what Fred Greed thought they would be--a panacea for this industry. Businessmen don't really need "frequency" as much as the want lower prices. With lower prices, RJs become too expensive to operate---and larger planes with more seats are needed to compete.

Agreed! But one problem; Why in the heck is the newest Delta Management still procurring RJ's?? What is going on here with your and Boyds assessment concerning the bad, bad RJ?? I consistently read about how the RJ is the high cost dead weight that has cost Delta its doom and gloom, but Delta Management continues to grow the fleet. What gives? I am lost on this one.

GE is supposedly forcing us to take more deliveries than we want due to a financial agreement. That is why if we go to court we may park a bunch. But, we have to becareful, since we want GE as a DIP lender. Those guys in the boardroom handle that stuff.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[FDJ2]

DL didn't really want all of these 50 seaters, but DALPA wanted it this way.

I see, DALPA forced management to acquire the largest 50 seat RJ fleet in world, with its high costs and the highest fuel burn per passenger seat mile in the industry. I guess DALPA also forced Leo to squander $3B in two RJ carriers, spend billions doubling them in size in the last 5 years, just to have them be worth less then half the original purchase price. 50 seat RJs are nice in a few small markets, but with yields down and Simplifares, they are an albatross for DAL. The resale for 50 seat RJs is nill, and for good reason.

 

[General Lee]

Medflyer,


Your statement really is misguided. Come on now.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[FlyComAirJets]

It's deja vu all over again.

The vast majority of RJs are leased. As such, it is not a particularly long term liability if they have been leased for, say, ten years already. Comair has been operating RJs since 1993 so I would expect some of them to be coming up if they were ten year leases (need to dive into the 10k Form for that). Assuming you are correct and the "resale [market] for 50 seat RJs is nill," well, then new leases could be renegotiated for a Song, kind of like what happened to turboprops in the mid nineties. They haven't gone away completely either. Sorry to disappoint you.

 

[theo]

The vast majority of RJs are leased. As such, it is not a particularly long term liability if they have been leased for, say, ten years already. Comair has been operating RJs since 1993 so I would expect some of them to be coming up if they were ten year leases (need to dive into the 10k Form for that). Assuming you are correct and the "resale [market] for 50 seat RJs is nill," well, then new leases could be renegotiated for a Song, kind of like what happened to turboprops in the mid nineties. They haven't gone away completely either. Sorry to disappoint you.

Unfortunatly, I think most leases run 15 years minimum...so any renegotiation is
probably years away from happening....minus a bankruptcy filing of course.

 

[MedFlyer]

I see, DALPA forced management to acquire the largest 50 seat RJ fleet in world, with its high costs and the highest fuel burn per passenger seat mile in the industry.

Actually, yes. DL management wanted more 70 seaters and fewer 50 seaters, but DALPA said NO. The prime reason DL bought so many RJ's was because MAINLINE costs had gotten out of control. DL couldn't fill the mainline planes at a profitable yield, so the routes were converted to RJ's. The theory was that the RJ's would simply cherry pick the high-yield customers and leave the low-yield stuff for someone else.

Was it the best strategy? No. The better strategy would have been to dramatically cut mainline costs, but neither DL management nor DALPA were willing to do that. DALPA wouldn't help out the company until it was bled down to nothing.

If the RJ's are such an albatross, why are the carriers that had far fewer of them going BK too? United didn't spend any money buying regional affiliates and had a relatively small number of RJ's, but they still went BK. USAirways had very few RJ's and they still went BK. In fact, CO has one of the highest ratios of RJ to mainline and they are probably in the best shape.

You can try to blame it all on RJ's and make yourself feel better, but the RJ's are only a small part of DL's downfall.

 

[FDJ2]

Actually, yes. DL management wanted more 70 seaters and fewer 50 seaters, but DALPA said NO.

There were and are no limitations on how many RJs DAL can deploy. The only limitation is on how many can be outsourced to contractors.

 

[FDJ2]

In fact, CO has one of the highest ratios of RJ to mainline and they are probably in the best shape.

The airlines with the highest ratio of RJs are Indy and DAL. In todays economy passengers just don't want to pay the 20cents/seat mile an RJ costs to operate.

 

[standaman]

The airlines with the highest ratio of RJs are Indy and DAL. In todays economy passengers just don't want to pay the 20cents/seat mile an RJ costs to operate.

Doesn't seem like they want to pay it on a mainline aircraft either. Hence our mutual problem.

 

[FlyComAirJets]

And the winner of the Flightinfo Double Speak Award goes to FDJ2!

There were and are no limitations on how many RJs DAL can deploy. The only limitation is on how many can be outsourced to contractors.

There is no limit on how many RJs DAL can deploy if flown my Delta mainline but there is a limitation on how many can be flown by outside contractors, did I get that right?

Sounds like a limitation to me.