a thought about this industry...

[91100 100 set]

This post might generate some heat, but I have been thinking about it for a day or so and want to say something. I was recently attending an interview for a regional airline. Currently employed by a 121 carrier whose future is a huge question mark, and I am looking for a new income from a "respected carrier with a decent contract" (log #1 on the fire). There are some carriers that I am not interested in working for regardless of growth, speed of upgrade, etc (log #2), and based on how I feel right now I will not apply to such carriers. So, there I was sitting in the terminal with a coworker who also interviewed that same day, waiting to fly home. A young woman who also interviewed that day with us walked over and sat down, also waiting for her flight. The 3 of us were making small talk, and my coworker and I were discussing the relative pay cut we'd be facing should we be offered positions, the relatively pathetic training pay, and a few other financial challenges we'd be facing the first year, and the large raise we'd be seeing in year two. Him and I were discussing in general terms our own financial obligations and how first year pay would be a challenge to these obligations. Then she said something that kinda made me bristle. "I don't really care about the pay, so long as it's an airline". I was once a little like her. I wanted to tell her that once the crease is worn out of your new airline uniform pants and you are on your second batch of uniform shirts, the thrill isn't the same and it's more about quality of life and not just taking ANY job. I'm afraid that it is exactly her attitude that is why we have people flying around making 25 or less a year, sleeping on crew room couches because they cannot afford better. I realize that I might be hypocritical for feeling this way, since we were interviewing for the same job, but her lack of concern for general working conditions in this industry really bothers me. As long as people with that attitude are out there, it's not gonna get any better.

 

[flx757]

And this is a surprise why? It's been that way as long as I have been in this "profession", which is over 25 years, and I see no change on the horizon. That's just the way it is, the way it always has been, and the way it always will be.

I find it a bit ironic that you are all applying for the same job, at the same pay, yet you complain about her willing to take the job no matter what they pay. Maybe you should hold out until they pay you what you are worth. Until you do that, you have no reason whatsoever to complain, and are nothing but a hypocrite. If you really want to do something about it, quit applying to jobs that pay substandard wages. But then again, what would that do? Absolutely nothing. There will ALWAYS be someone behind you willing to apply for that same job. So, you are no better than the one you criticize. You are just rationalizing your reasoning for applying by saying, "well, at least I didn't say I didn't care about the pay". Whether you said it or not, evidently you DON'T care about the pay because you applied anyway for the job. And after all, actions speak louder than words.

 

[350DRIVER]

I second the above, just a tad ironic to say the least. You beat me to it flx. You knew the pay going into the interview..


3 5 0

 

[pipejockey]

she said something that kinda made me bristle. "I don't really care about the pay, so long as it's an airline".

Well unlike you and your co-worker, she had probably never worked for an airline before. That is why she said what she did. Poor child

I wanted to tell her that once the crease is worn out of your new airline uniform pants and you are on your second batch of uniform shirts, the thrill isn't the same and it's more about quality of life and not just taking ANY job. I'm afraid that it is exactly her attitude that is why we have people flying around making 25 or less a year, sleeping on crew room couches because they cannot afford better.

Well if what you say about the thrill being gone when the new-hires get on their 2nd batch of uniform shirts, then its not people like her that are the cause for the insulting wages. Only the newest of newhires are still feeling the thrill, but it takes alot more than the newhires to vote in these contracts that aren't even good enough to wipe my a** with. Its the pilot groups as whole that vote yes to these contracts. Sure many are left with few choices, because the mainline carrier that controls their flying will just give the growth to the lower cost carriers.

The regional pilots as a whole must take a stand!

 

[chperplt]

Yea Tab.. and like in a few years.. you'll still be a dork...

 

[mckpickle]

So true.

The other day we were flying from XXX to IAH. We got a hold as we taxied out so we shut em down and waited. The FA calls up and says theres a guy back here going for his final interview. So we say sent the young lad up. Hoping to give him a little inspiration and calm his fears.

Very nice guy, and one that I look forward to flying with. ANyway, we get released and off to IAH. The FA calls up about an hour later and tells us what this young lad says. Keep in mind she is married to a pilot so is very interested in the outcome of our contract.

Apparently she said something like....."when the contract is finnished it will be a lot better for you guys".

To which he responded........."If they get half of what they ask for I'll be happy."




Now this is the problem. We still consider it an honor to WORK for someone. Now don't get me wrong it is. But when everyone is willing to sell the industry and profession short this is what happens. If we stuck together the airlines would have to raise the ticket prices.


Fast forward to IAH. As I sat in the seat for the last hour of the flight several options came to mind as to how best to deal with this attitude.

I decided counseling was in order. I pulled the young lad aside after the flight and told him how my FO. in the 4th year pay scale has yet to break 30K. I told him how myself,who is going into 8th years pay has yet to break 60K. And I told him that if he truely felt that way there were airlines hiring, (MESA, CHQ) that would happily pay him half of what we are asking for. I did so very diplomatically and he was all appologies. But it needed to be said.

 

[StarChecker]

You know some people actually like flying and find that indeed it is a priviledge to fly.

If it's such a priviledge, why not do it for free. Oh no...wait a minute....actually, you're PAYING to do it.....nevermind. Some of us are trying to make a living doing this "priviledge".

 

[Flywrite]

A privilage to fly? Maybe so in the big picture, but as a professional pilot flying is a responsibility and a career, not a privilage.

Nor should it be a "privilage" for a professional pilot to be able to afford a decent home, feed his (or her) family, and enjoy some time with that family.

Practicing medicine or law could also be considered a privelage, but you don't see Doctors and Lawyers screwing each other over to do it.

The "privilage" of being a pilot is granted bythe FAA, not a company.

 

[Flywrite]

Dumba$$, dont you realise that the more people flying RJs for "whatever the pay", the less major airline dream jobs there are going to be?

 

[FurloughedAgain]

geez

Well Tab,

What are you going to do when your "Goal" airline furloughs you after a few years and you have to go find a job flying an RJ again?

I'll tell you what you do. You PRAY that you can find a job with a carrier whose pilots have the stones to fight for a LIVABLE contract and they're not all a bunch of spinless wimps who are willing to fly for free just for the privilege of sitting in an RJ and counting the tenths until (they believe) a major will call.

This is a JOB -- NOT a hobby. Some of us are counting on these airline to provide us with pay and benefits which will permit us to care for our families.

Yes, for some people the regionals are a stepping stone. But for others the regionals are a lifetime career, and for still others the regionals are a fallback position -- a "soft landing" -- when their careers at their "goal airlines" didn't work out the way they had planned.

We have an obligation to THOSE people to make sure that the regional contracts have appropriate compensation and benefits befitting the responsibilities of our jobs.

If you're fortunate Tab, after a few years you will find your way to your dream airline.

If you're even MORE fortunate you'll be able to STAY with that airline without any career-catastophies such as bankruptcies or furloughs.

If you're EXTREMELY fortunate you'll never have to fly with someone like you. Someone who is so self-absorbed that they can't see the impact of their actions on their coworkers.

 

[jumppilot]

You know some people actually like flying and find that indeed it is a priviledge to fly.

Holy s*it dude, you are a dork.

Get back to me when you have more than 400 hours (Which I believe to be rounded up...severely).

 

[91100 100 set]

Well, like I said, there are some companies out there that I am not interested in working for. The interview I attended was for a company that I am interested in working for. I was not attacking or criticizing this young woman for interviewing with this company, and I hope it works out for the both of us. What bothered me however was her comment that gave me the distinct impression that she'd have gone just about anywhere for the opportunity (priviledge to some?) to fly some sexy jet to far-flung places.

Like furloughedagain said, this is a job, not a hobby. Granted, I feel fortunate that I still enjoy flying, so I can say that I enjoy my job (at least enough to still put up with all the other garbage), as hopefully all of us do, lest we would not be on this board having this conversation, instead of getting a real job in some office cubicle somewhere. However I do realize the importance of making it a livable job and not chasing the dream that appears to be going away by going to some revolving door airline with a 6 month upgrade. In case you haven't noticed, that revolving door isn't turning so quickly anymore.

 

[Publishers]

Door

The problem is that the job this person had does not exist. Exactly why they are looking for somethng and are willing to take less than they think they deserve.

Yes , the majors will be back but they will be slightly wounded and the opportunity for new people, way down stream. Things change and the prestige and all the other aspects may be greatly diminished. The existing pilot corp has never cared a bit about the newhires and that is why the contracts are the way they are.

There are a bunch of coporate and fractional jobs that pay more than regionals. It is the hook on the lure that get people to see only the glory on the end and not the path.

It has always been this way and always will be to some extent.

 

[Otto Coarsen]

Let me get this straight....

You went from High School.......... To some flight school to get your commercial ticket...........to PFT in a beat up king air?


How exactly do you plan on even convincing a Major to send you an application?

 

[climbhappy]

91.100,etc

hey,

i see your point of view and can draw the line as to how you came up with it, but it's wrong, in my opinion.

wages are based on the cost to bring a product/service to market.

the majors decided to farm out feed to the lowest bidder. the costs of operating rjs means an accountant has said if we bid this price, and the airplane payment is this and all the costs are factored in, we can pay the pilots this to get a 10 15%return.

Comairled the way with rjs ina ten year cycle that burst with 9/11. southwest meanwhile has been copied twice now with airtran and jetblue. in mautre industries wages come down.

the problem is , our profession is no longer the glamour job of the past. it really makes you wonder how and why one would put up with all this crap to make the peanuts.

your interview friend simply shows how desperate every one is to stay in the game. many older, mature pilots will be probably doing the career switch in reverse. i turn 43 next month, and could see that on the horizon if things don't improve soon.