A Second Grand Aire Accident

[350DRIVER]

Let's round up all the Jews, North Koreans, Blacks. Man you are friggin ignorant!

I agree..... -

All muslims. Any questions?

Your response reaks of sheer ignorance to perfection... If I ever wanted to make a senseless comment to draw attention due to "stupidity" I would ask for your help.

I don't think I will continue since your post speaks for itself and it wouldn't do justice to give it the time of the day.

3 5 0

ps>>> I think that if it was a "terrorist" attempt they wouldn't have waited for the second time around, huh.?? - absolutely no way.. You may want to change yo kool aid flavors. (

 

[Typhoon1244]

If you want to live in a nation that is not a melting pot...

Ah, but we're not a melting pot! If we were, there would be no races...or at least no recognition of them. As long as there are neighborhoods where black people don't drive and neighborhoods where white people don't drive, let's not B.S. ourselves and the world about being a "melting pot."

If anything, we're a "salad bowl." Everything's in there, it's just not all blended together.

 

[azpilot]

Ah, but we're not a melting pot! If we were, there would be no races...or at least no recognition of them. As long as there are neighborhoods where black people don't drive and neighborhoods where white people don't drive, let's not B.S. ourselves and the world about being a "melting pot."

If anything, we're a "salad bowl." Everything's in there, it's just not all blended together.

Well I agree with you in some ways. However, the term "Melting Pot" is a well accepted one. In my neighborhood, which I consider reasonably upscale, I have neighbors that are black, korean, hispanic, indian, and white. So we do melt in a few places.

- AZPilot

 

[Chas]

Cnn reported

That the FAA is now saying the 2 crashes were just a sad coincidence . What a shame that such a thing could happen not once but twice . Chas

 

[metrodriver]

I know many pilots of middle eastern descent and most of them are very professional pilots. You have to give them credit. they made a landing where they were not supposed to land and walk away from it.
The problem might have been STL airport itself.When things go IFR (and it was 1/2mile - 100') the place becomes a nightmare with only one operating runway. They vector you down in 1000' increments and you are at 5000' about 15 miles on the upwind side of the airport,and the downwind portion can extend 30 or more miles to the other side. I have had a 30 mile final there once, doing all of about 170 kts. This was in a metro. Imagine how much fuel you burn in something like a lear 24, falcon 20. These guys had already made an approach and for one reason or another had to go missed. How long did they have to fly? They declared min fuel, maybe a little late, but what did atc with them afterwards? As long as we haven't seen a rapport, we can only speculate. If the river was the only suitable place to land, then they did a good job

 

[Timebuilder]

In my neighborhood, which I consider reasonably upscale, I have neighbors that are black, korean, hispanic, indian, and white. So we do melt in a few places.

I agree.

The folks in your neighborhood probably have two distinct traits: a love of America, and a propensity for hard work and success.


Before 9-11, three pakistanis in a plane crash would have drawn little attention. Hopefully, this is just an unfortunate accident.

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

First of all, being Pakistani doesn't make you a Muslim. I personally know of 3 people that live/lived in Pakistan. All of them were Christian. (I'm sure there are also some Hindus living in Pakistan, not to mention probably every other religion out there. Most of them are Muslims, but not all.

It is not possible to take off from DRT and fly to STL with legal fuel reserves, in a Falcon 20 (with the old engines, which is what they had) and carry very much freight at all. I think it's almost guaranteed that they didn't take off with a legal flight plan/fuel reserves.

Cliff
GRB

 

[ATR-DRIVR]

typhoon,
you mentioned that the roselawn atr crew was according to you, 'tooling around in icing without any icing on'. you need to get the facts straight. the icing system WAS on. the conditons were holding in severe icing and flaps 15. they were not 'tooling around without any anti/deiceing on.

 

[GulfPilot]

Amazing amount of racism and ignorance in some of the above posts..

 

[Typhoon1244]

Typhoon, you mentioned that the Roselawn ATR crew was according to you, 'tooling around in icing without any icing on'. You need to get the facts straight. The icing system WAS on. (capitals added)

You're absolutely right, and I apologize. The ol' memory's not what it used to be. I knew they did something stupid...just forgot exactly what it was. In my defense, I did say "sort of," not "just like."

The Capital Viscount crew was, however, flying around in known icing with no anti-ice.

 

[Dieterly]

the conditons were holding in severe icing

Sounds like "tooling around" to me...

 

[Timebuilder]

Amazing amount of racism and ignorance in some of the above posts..

Please feel free to share your observations.

As for me, I have seen people leave the ghetto behind because they had the drive, will, intestinal fortitude, call it what you will, to succeed. It starts as a youngster: being willing to study and get good grades. Nowdays, this is looked down upon an being "too white".

I worked alongside a Pakistani for several years. A new American citizen, he had much to say about the ruling families of Pakistan, who made their money in the opium trade. Muslims are the majority, and persecute everyone else according to what he told me. This is backed up by both news and ministry reports. In India, the persecution is even worse.

Friends.

 

[Mr Freeze]

The FBI are calling the crew members heroes, not terrorists. They purposely ditched the airplane away from a populated area. Each one of us would do the same thing. Just because they are of Middle Eastern decent don't slap a terrorist label on them. I met these guys in Evansville, IN a few months back. Both of them were good people as are the rest of the Grand Aire pilots. Yes, it is a coincidence that two crashed in one day, but let's not go as far as calling them terrorists. I wish them a speedy recovery and our thoughts and prayers go out to all the pilots' families.

 

[av8or98]

V-1
The post is about Grand Aire and muslims.


azpilot, 350driver, gulfpilot

ignorant- 1. lacking in knowledge or training, 2. lacking knowledge about a particular subject or fact, 3. uninformed, unaware.

I have worked with muslims, Pakistanies and have lived in a muslim country for three years. I think that qualifies as being informed about reality. Since you brought up the subject of ignorance, what's your experience on the subject???????

 

[azpilot]

V-1
The post is about Grand Aire and muslims.


azpilot, 350driver, gulfpilot

ignorant- 1. lacking in knowledge or training, 2. lacking knowledge about a particular subject or fact, 3. uninformed, unaware.

I have worked with muslims, Pakistanies and have lived in a muslim country for three years. I think that qualifies as being informed about reality. Since you brought up the subject of ignorance, what's your experience on the subject???????

I do not make generalities about a particular race, gender, or nationality like you do. Just because you have lived in a particular area does not mean you are an expert on all the people. You may be an expert in your experience with the people you dealt with. I have lived in Arizona for 15 years, does that make me an expert in the local Hispanic community? Nope. So again I don't make general statements about any one group.

What is your take on folks like Timothy McVeigh vs. what you imply these two pilots could have been doing? Should we lock up all the white christians? You must agree with the new TSA rule that they can take a pilots license away on a whim.

My point is that when you make generalities about any one group you are ignorant.

Anyway I am done discussing the subject. This was a post about an aviation accident. If you want to debate about race, religion, etc we can do that some other place.

 

[GulfPilot]

aviator98 the Gulf in my user name is Gulf as in Gulf war, not as in Gulf of Mexico or any other gulf..11 years and counting, think that qualifies me to comment

 

[SWA/FO]

Flying into STL sucks VFR or IFR.... ATC can make it so difficult. I use to go into Spirit of St. Louis when flying freight. Thats a better place to go...besides they have a resturant on the field. Gotta love food!!

You guys going to start picking on the french, next?

 

[Typhoon1244]

You guys going to start picking on the French next?

The French may be, generally speaking, a bunch of uncooperative pricks, but they don't generally go around trying to blow up anybody who isn't a Muslim.

Just suppose two aircraft crash on the same day, both chartered jets, both near major U.S. landmarks, one with an all French crew and one with, say, an all Saudi Arabian crew. (Remember, most--if not all--of the September 11th hijackers were Saudi nationals.) Doesn't the Saudi crew deserve to at least have their background checks freshened up a bit by the FBI*? I'm not saying lock 'em up and work 'em over...just try to make sure they haven't spent time in an Al Quaeda training camp lately! Again, it's not racism, it's not even profiling. It's pattern recognition.

Here, think of it this way: a certain FBO has a loaner car, but every time they let an airline flight crew use it, it comes back trashed and out of gas. (Panama City, FL comes to mind...) Now here I come, an upstanding citizen who will treat their car with respect, but they won't give it to me. Why? Because they recognized a pattern: "every airline crew we loan the car to destroys it. So, let's stop loaning it to airline crews."

"Profiling" follows the same logic: Middle Eastern males aged 18 to 50 have carried out a statistically significant number of attacks aimed at Americans. Therefore, anyone in that demographic should be subject to more scrutiny than the rest of us. Right?


* I should note that, based on my past experiences, the FBI is totally incompetent...but they have proven they can identify terrorists after the fact.

 

[rfeathe1]

Grand Aire isn't the first operator to lose 2 aircraft in one day. In January 1977 an air taxi company owned by Frank Sinatra lost 2 Lears in 20 minutes. The first one was out west ( I think LAS) where the Lear hit a mountain on climbout. Sinatra's mother was aboard. 20 minutes later another Lear crashed on the approach to RW 27 at Flint, Mi.--no pax on board but they lost the crew. I don't remember the name of the company but they had an office at Willow Run ( YIP ) at the time. Conspiracy theories were rampant for about a month or so but most of us finally concluded it was just an unfortunate coincidence.

 

[Snakum]

Should we lock up all the white christians?

Naaahhhh ... let's feed em to the lions and sell tickets.

Minh
(Spreading compassion everywhere!)