A Quick F9 .... answer b4 the feces keep getting thrown

[monkeybrains01]

There is no guaranteed fleet size for the Airbus that I am aware of. I would not be surprised if Bedford sold SOME of the Airbii to raise a little capital going forward.

problem is f9 doesn't own any airbusses, or anything for that matter, it was all sold/leveraged to keep us going through the bankruptcy process.

 

[En Mort Main]

Hey lets hope RAH does not agree with SWA about what is fair...Straight staple.
Right now it is not a good thing to be at the bottom of anyones list...Sure SWA thought F9 guys/gals would be a nice furlough cushion for their list. "Oh but we have never furloughed," history is not always the best predictor of future events, and SWA would rather have a first time for everything event at the exspense of f9 guy/gals than their own.
En Mort main

 

[The Victors]

Hey lets hope RAH does not agree with SWA about what is fair...Straight staple.
Right now it is not a good thing to be at the bottom of anyones list...Sure SWA thought F9 guys/gals would be a nice furlough cushion for their list. "Oh but we have never furloughed," history is not always the best predictor of future events, and SWA would rather have a first time for everything event at the exspense of f9 guy/gals than their own.
En Mort main

Swapa may have moved from a "straight staple" if FAPA was willing to talk. FAPA position was their 1994 DOH was equal to SWA 1972 DOH. And you talk about fair??

 

[En Mort Main]

Swapa may have moved from a "straight staple" if FAPA was willing to talk. FAPA position was their 1994 DOH was equal to SWA 1972 DOH. And you talk about fair??

So the goal was to low ball knowing that straight staple was unfair even though time was a factor. Was is really FAPA or SWAPA that threw negotiations?
Fairness is often times in the eye of the beholder....
En Mort Main

 

[krewmeel]

There is no guaranteed fleet size for the Airbus that I am aware of. I would not be surprised if Bedford sold SOME of the Airbii to raise a little capital going forward. That said, the Airbus brings capabilities to RAH that none of the Embraers bring. The Airbus has reliable coast to coast capability, and is equipped for overwater flights to the Caribbean and Mexico. The Ejet will never have that range, and will require some modifications for those overwater routes. Your Airbii are currently profitable overall, and Bedford NEEDS reliable income to appease investors. You may see certain Airbus routes taken over by E190's, but I think the Airbii will be reassigned to other routes. And again, I do think some planes WILL be sold (maybe some A318's) to raise capital. The Airbus offers more options for expansion, and is still an efficient airplane that offers customer appeal and mechanical reliability.

All of the A318s were going away even before RAH became interested in us. Menke does not like them (neither do the pilots) because they only hold 120 and don't burn much less fuel than the 320s. 4 of the 318s have already been replaced by 320s and more are on the way. Rumor is many 320s are coming on top of those replacing the 318s. Our 320s are config. to 162. Good for the east coast Costa Rica and DCA (which F9 has exclusive route authority).

 

[The Victors]

So the goal was to low ball knowing that straight staple was unfair even though time was a factor. Was is really FAPA or SWAPA that threw negotiations?
Fairness is often times in the eye of the beholder....
En Mort Main

Let me explain to you how negotiations work. Each side starts with an extreme proposal and then moves to somewhere in the middle. Swapa was trying to move to the middle, but FAPA refused to move from their extreme. Do you really think it would have been fair for an F9 1994 DOH to be right after a swa 1972 DOH and then on down the list?

 

[Porch]

40% pay raise for the F9 F/O's, gone. Job security for F9 pilots, gone. Was it worth it? Doesn't matter to me. I would rather hire pilots who want to be @ WN and grow on our own. A pilot who has been hired and not acquired is the one I would rather be sitting next to. What did Republic do to the Midwest guys after they took over? Not try to be a smart a$$ on that one, just asking. Everything else, smart a$$. I know I sound like a jerk, actually not the intention. My point is this, WN made a fair offer to a group of great people over @ F9, and in todays environment, job security is a good thing to have. If you can use "job security" and "airline pilot" in the same sentence. "Stapled" with a 40% pay raise and job security? I'll take that any day.

Fire away

There's nothing to fire at... it's the truth. I'm embarrassed to be part of FAPA/F9. They have no idea what just happened and what a disaster our professional careers have drawn into. I want out of this mess

To answer the above question... no its not fair. The staple offer was fair to 100% of the F9 pilots I communicate with.

 

[skystud25]

Let me explain to you how negotiations work. Each side starts with an extreme proposal and then moves to somewhere in the middle. Swapa was trying to move to the middle, but FAPA refused to move from their extreme. Do you really think it would have been fair for an F9 1994 DOH to be right after a swa 1972 DOH and then on down the list?

I've heard that's not how it went down. Didn't see anywhere where SWA moved away from the staple, so not sure how it is they tried to "move to the middle." I gotta feel for the F9 guys at that conference call. 3.5 hours and you have the futures of hundreds of pilots in your hand, not an enviable position. SWA comes at you with the staple, you counter with the ridiculous pay and medical benefits for furloughed pilots idea (probably had that proposal ready to fire in anticipation of the staple offer), and no time to really work anything out. I gotta figure for something as important as this that it was planned all along to pressure the F9 guys with this 11th hour ultimatum BS. No wonder they said no, 3 hours isn't enough time to digest anything. As a former F9er, I still have many friends there. The universal opinion I got seemed to be some kind of integration at the bottom of the list and a few hundred F9ers at the bottom would have been palatable. Of course, all of my friends there are junior and that probably isn't the opinion at the top. I think it may have been closer than it seems, and the opportunity slipped by because of the timeline. Both sides lost on this one.

 

[BobbyB]

Time will tell. The F9 guys will be able to look at where they'd be on the WN payscale/seniority list 1 or 5 or 10 years from now and they will know if FAPA did them any favors or not.

 

[ivauir]

I've heard that's not how it went down. Didn't see anywhere where SWA moved away from the staple, so not sure how it is they tried to "move to the middle."

SWAPA gave FAPA 3 of the 4 things they asked for. FAPA response? They asked for more things.

II gotta feel for the F9 guys at that conference call. 3.5 hours and you have the futures of hundreds of pilots in your hand, not an enviable position. .

Too bad FAPA couldn't be on time for the meeting. They could of had 2.5 hours more. They also could have shown up ready to negotiate on day one. Face it, FAPA was counting on arbitration, and thought they were in the driver's seat.

 

[Say Again Over]

Coulda, woulda, shouda, simply amazing!