A question for an AirTran Captain

[dicko]

Ok- then what do you do with the fact that the man who writes the checks wants an agreed upon solution? GK wants us to vote in and take ownership of the integration and not have it forced on us all-
If it's arby or nothing for you guys how do you ever take ownership for your situation?
Saying you will is shallow.
SWA mgmt is brilliant at understanding people- you must have skin in the game to OWN IT.

I completely agree with you. An agreed upon solution is my best case scenario and arbitration is the last resort. Leaving a negotiated solution out of the VA example has nothing to do with 'us'.

Both sides are going to have to compromise if a solution is to be reached outside of Arbitration. Who do you think really has more "skin in the game"; An AirTran pilot who is being threatened with losing it all, or a SWA pilot whose worst case is a small gain in seniority ?

I've never been called "shallow" by a man before. Very liberating.

 

[waveflyer]

No- no one important has threatened your job. GK simply said he is re-evaluating this purchase in light of your MEC's actions.

Who cares what you have to lose before you are integrated- it's what have you sacrificed to get integrated? How can you show the whole SWA family that's it's not all about you and fighting for every inch of seniority that you feel entitled to? I'm not a religious man, but I like many biblical verses- Luke 14:10 sincerely applies in this case.

SL9 was the compromise. And instead of letting that compromise be tested by both sides- you didn't let it go to a vote bc your MEC felt entitled to more.

Let's be real- neither mgmt or this group will allow any AT guy to go above a Morris pilot- that means you lose 20%+ seniority at the best case scenario. Tack on reasonable adjustments for QOL, payraises, MUCH BETTER MGMT AND CORPORATION (which is truly key here) and doing better than SL9 seems very unrealistic-

I'm not sure it'd pass our side- but it was an olive branch reaching out to you. I think there would have been a good 40% solid No vote on our side- but the rest would be willing to accept it so that GK had his solution sooner than later- and know that we showed as much leadership as we could to the other groups. I think your side would've voted the same-
Both sides not liking it- but sacrificing for the greater good of SWA- that's why it passed 19-0. Our board isn't crazy- they knew many didn't like this- but they have a different mentality and trust level with our mgmt.

It's water under the bridge- but I'm going back to what I've said all along- lower your expectations and your career at SWA will be very prosperous-

Don't and all I know is trying to push SWA has never worked out well for anyone. I can't do it. Swapa can't. And certainly not ALPA who has a clear conflict of interest and a terrible track record in dealing with swa.

Sure you want to back ALPA over GK? ALPA continues to collect dues- their lawyers keep billing out hours- and their hope is that conflict will build between us.

It's time to intervene on that master plan. If you don't- I'm sure GK will.

 

[Bill Nelson]

Your offer to go from 29% of OVERALL, COMPANYWIDE seniority, to 22% of FOs, or 22% of half of companywide seniority is not acceptable to this captain at 28%…Ask captains at you 28% if they would like to go to 60% if supersenior group like USAir East was merged with you.

What is your BATNA?

 

[Fly-By-Cable]

Fly by-

If AT had bought Virgin America outright- and their pilots made that same argument, what would you think?

My offer to Midwest guys would have been relative seniority. I believe it's the only fair way. Bid same position as you did before, nothing changes.
All I want from what would be the combined company today, not in the future filled with 787s, but today, is to bid half way up captain list on my 717 in ATL. I don't want your seats in other bases, I don't want 737 flying to Hawaii, I don't want anything I didn't have.
So you gonna say you getting more pay? You guys are living in fantasy land if you think I get 50% increase with SWA. I'm at 140 now (didn't get paid for 100 hrs of credit in Aug yet) on track to make 200k this year and I fly the line that I want and never pick up extra time. I get a raise in Dec. which will probably make my next year even better (210-220). You will say, but here you will make 260. That's nice, not worth the 34% seniority loss to me though. Remember, SWA has been around for 40 years, and AirTran for 17. You have 6000 pilots, we have 1700. Based on all that I'm doing OK pay-wise, with room to grow.

Your proposal will cut ATL base in half, which will happen anyways. I am half way and might be able to hang on to the base, but in AIP with ATL being "sweet spot" every guy above me would commute to ATL from Chicago area, Florida, BWI, etc just to take advantage of fenced base. That will force me to commute out fighting for JS not only with guys like me, but with those senior to us commuting into the fence for protections. Not to mention I need a crashpad/hotel, airport car, I'll be commuting on at least one day off (which brings me back to days off at home I am at now.) Or I would sell my house in ATL (one of the most affordable house markets in the country) at a loss, and look for house in expensive market like BWI. Not to mention that every time there is an upgrade for next however many years it will be 1300 guys who would be senior to me. (remember I've been here 11 years and should not have many guys senior to me as FOs at SWA). So my glamorous lifestyle as SWA-tranny would continue for many years (about 10), for about 40K more a year, which I guarantee you GK is gonna ask for in the next CBA negotiations. Just listen to his "worsening economy" speech. And I know how SWAPA listens to what management says. So here I am giving up 34% of seniority for pay increase that could be taken away anyways. What do I have left? career expectations? I had plenty here. I was gonna retire #1 after being top 10% for 15 years.

On contrary, I understand that it is unfair for 10 year SWA FO to fly with 6 year AT captain. Something should be done about that, but to slide everyone in seniority like AIP did is not the answer.

 

[Fly-By-Cable]

What is your BATNA?

Bill, I love you only because SWA culture tells me to do so...just so you know.

 

[redflyer65]

What do I have left? career expectations? I had plenty here.

Fly-by,

It sounds like the whole purchase sucks for you. The key word is had. Not trying to throw salt in the wound, but the purchase of Airtran by SW is going to change many lives going forward, there won't be anyway around that.

Most, if not all of our pilots wanted to grow internally. Gary had other ideas, so we aren't exactly happy on this side. Maybe 5% or less of the pilots are wearing One LUV lanyards. There's a reason for that.

RF

 

[Fly-By-Cable]

PS. I'm changing my avatar to something less generic since my friend Sacha has added me into the list of Flightinfo legends like TyWebb, Lear and others.
Thanks for promotion, bud.

 

[Fly-By-Cable]

Fly-by,

It sounds like the whole purchase sucks for you. The key word is had. Not trying to throw salt in the wound, but the purchase of Airtran by SW is going to change many lives going forward, there won't be anyway around that.

Most, if not all of our pilots wanted to grow internally. Gary had other ideas, so we aren't exactly happy on this side. Maybe 5% or less of the pilots are wearing One LUV lanyards. There's a reason for that.

RF

Agree!

I Never wanted to work at SWA, not because it didn't like you guys or the company, but because i wanted to get early-on at the airline that would become like SWA someday. And the fact that Gary wanted to buy AirTran tells me that we were doing just that.

I was advised to go to AirTran by a retired Delta captain who got hired at 21 at a startup (Delta) to build some flight time and then move on to Eastern. Due to events outside of his will, he retired at the top of Delta's list after having a career that most 40 year old Delta newhires can only dream of.

Everyone's life will change from here on. I'm ready to embrace the new future, just don't feel like I should be taking it in a shorts, while my SWA counterparts are gaining in return.

The Arbitrators will make both sides suffer. Let's hope we can come to an agreement on our own that will make both sides suffer a lot less.

 

[GuppyWN]

You're so sweet.

I almost believe you.

Gup

 

[dicko]

No- no one important has threatened your job. GK simply said he is re-evaluating this purchase in light of your MEC's actions.

That paragraph just lost all of your integrity and the Golden Rule in one swipe. The only real question is, do you believe it ?

Who cares what you have to lose before you are integrated- it's what have you sacrificed to get integrated? How can you show the whole SWA family that's it's not all about you and fighting for every inch of seniority that you feel entitled to? I'm not a religious man, but I like many biblical verses- Luke 14:10 sincerely applies in this case.

Really ? I didn't mention losing anything and I certainly didn't quote the bible. I do enjoy the preaching though.

SL9 was the compromise. And instead of letting that compromise be tested by both sides- you didn't let it go to a vote bc your MEC felt entitled to more.

Let's be real- neither mgmt or this group will allow any AT guy to go above a Morris pilot- that means you lose 20%+ seniority at the best case scenario. Tack on reasonable adjustments for QOL, payraises, MUCH BETTER MGMT AND CORPORATION (which is truly key here) and doing better than SL9 seems very unrealistic-

I'm not sure it'd pass our side-

Complete BS. You would have scurried for the "YES" button. Mumbling and drooling incantations.

but it was an olive branch reaching out to you. I think there would have been a good 40% solid No vote on our side- but the rest would be willing to accept it so that GK had his solution sooner than later- and know that we showed as much leadership as we could to the other groups. I think your side would've voted the same-
Both sides not liking it- but sacrificing for the greater good of SWA- that's why it passed 19-0. Our board isn't crazy- they knew many didn't like this- but they have a different mentality and trust level with our mgmt.

It's water under the bridge- but I'm going back to what I've said all along- lower your expectations and your career at SWA will be very prosperous-

Don't and all I know is trying to push SWA has never worked out well for anyone. I can't do it. Swapa can't. And certainly not ALPA who has a clear conflict of interest and a terrible track record in dealing with swa.

Sure you want to back ALPA over GK? ALPA continues to collect dues- their lawyers keep billing out hours- and their hope is that conflict will build between us.

It's time to intervene on that master plan. If you don't- I'm sure GK will.

Does the Golden Rule only apply to some people ? Do you only apply it some of the time ? When you need it to climb a few percent.

Research 'Cant' and Luke:61.