Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Friendliest aviation Ccmmunity on the web
  • Modern site for PC's, Phones, Tablets - no 3rd party apps required
  • Ask questions, help others, promote aviation
  • Share the passion for aviation
  • Invite everyone to Flightinfo.com and let's have fun

A pilots best advocate is Michael Moore

Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Modern secure site, no 3rd party apps required
  • Invite your friends
  • Share the passion of aviation
  • Friendliest aviation community on the web
Register   Log in
Last edited:
The whole role of Moore's movie is anti-capitalism and pro socialism. If you want everyone to be equally miserable, than I would agree Moore is your friend. After 24 years of hard work, I recently (3 yrs ago) made it on to a major airline with great pay and QOL. I want my children to have that "opportunity"-note I did not say "guarantee." Changing the basic system of the most successful country ever is not the "change" I want.
 
Blaming others for your own decision.

Having spent years at one of the worst commuter airlines around, I understand how difficult the job is. What I still can't understand is how someone can complain after willingly taking such a job.

Before I went off to the commuters I knew the pay was crap. I knew the working conditions and hours were horrid. I also knew advancement to the best jobs in this unstable industry was no better than a crap-shoot. Who among the readers here would like to admit they knew none of this?

And then, to complain to someone as disingenuous as Michael Moore is simple insanity. This person who makes millions in the capitalist system only to turn around and slam capitalism? That makes no more sense than complaining about a job you willingly accepted. Moore is simply an opportunist trading on the dissatisfaction of others. Do you really want that type of person as an ally?

Good luck.
 
dragontamer said:
The whole role of Moore's movie is anti-capitalism and pro socialism. If you want everyone to be equally miserable, than I would agree Moore is your friend. After 24 years of hard work, I recently (3 yrs ago) made it on to a major airline with great pay and QOL. I want my children to have that "opportunity"-note I did not say "guarantee." Changing the basic system of the most successful country ever is not the "change" I want.
Click to expand...


westward said:
Having spent years at one of the worst commuter airlines around, I understand how difficult the job is. What I still can't understand is how someone can complain after willingly taking such a job.

Before I went off to the commuters I knew the pay was crap. I knew the working conditions and hours were horrid. I also knew advancement to the best jobs in this unstable industry was no better than a crap-shoot. Who among the readers here would like to admit they knew none of this?

And then, to complain to someone as disingenuous as Michael Moore is simple insanity. This person who makes millions in the capitalist system only to turn around and slam capitalism? That makes no more sense than complaining about a job you willingly accepted. Moore is simply an opportunist trading on the dissatisfaction of others. Do you really want that type of person as an ally?

Good luck.
Click to expand...

Has either one of you even seen the movie? Apparently not. If you did see it, you weren't paying attention. It is not anti-capitalism/pro socialism at all. You say this as if it is black and white and that is not what the film does.
 
westward said:
Having spent years at one of the worst commuter airlines around, I understand how difficult the job is. What I still can't understand is how someone can complain after willingly taking such a job.

.
Click to expand...

Sorry, Chief, but I disagree. Signing on for a job does not constitute a waiver of the right to try to change and improve things, nor do you relinquish your right to complain about existing conditions.
 
Michael Moore is a blowhard who is in it to get publicity, and money, for himself. When he showed up to arrest the chairman of GM, he knew that wasn't going to happen. When he showed up on Wall Street asking to get the american people their money back, he knew he wasn't going to get it. When he lauded the cuban healtch care system as being more advanced and more available than the US system, he knew he was lying about something that americans would never be able to verify.
 
CEO's ~ Michael Moore

Same bull$hit, different beneficiary.
 
Personal responsibility.

Ty Webb said:
Sorry, Chief, but I disagree. Signing on for a job does not constitute a waiver of the right to try to change and improve things, nor do you relinquish your right to complain about existing conditions.
Click to expand...

I agree, change it, improve it, take over and make it the best - no argument. But if that job is so bad, why accept it? Don't complain about a situation you alone chose to enter. No sympathy here.
 
Nail on the head!

Moore is a gasbag and he doesn't give a rat's a$$ about pilots or anyone else. He's just lining his pockets with money from his "movies"!

SSDD said:
Michael Moore is a blowhard who is in it to get publicity, and money, for himself. When he showed up to arrest the chairman of GM, he knew that wasn't going to happen. When he showed up on Wall Street asking to get the american people their money back, he knew he wasn't going to get it. When he lauded the cuban healtch care system as being more advanced and more available than the US system, he knew he was lying about something that americans would never be able to verify.
Click to expand...
 
SSDD said:
Michael Moore is a blowhard who is in it to get publicity, and money, for himself.
Click to expand...

Besides for the money part, you sure you're not posting about yourself?

What do people find so difficult about separating Moore's point from his antics? If that fooktard Glen Beck or that pill-popper Rush Limbaugh, or that skinny shrill wind-bag Ann Coulter engages in theatrics to make a point, you right-wing wackos are all hunched over in a corner pleasuring yourself to it.
 
ReverseSensing said:
What do people find so difficult about separating Moore's point from his antics? If that fooktard Glen Beck or that pill-popper Rush Limbaugh, or that skinny shrill wind-bag Ann Coulter engages in theatrics to make a point, you right-wing wackos are all hunched over in a corner pleasuring yourself to it.
Click to expand...
OK, that was funny... :D

(and no, I'm not a Democrat and I did *NOT* vote for Obama, just thought the above was well-phrased and kinda humorous, all things considered).
 
Hahaha, so quick to attack what you don't know. Like Galileo getting called a heretic for his astronomical discoveries by the pope. And yes, he is a d-bag who steers his audience and tells half-truths. But that is just him trying to be persuasive. His movies aren't meant to be a debate. All his movies are meant to expose GREED at the expense of others; more than bash guns, GM, private healthcare, or Capitalism.

I hate the man's guts, but amongst his BS is a point here and there. Of course he has to make money. He has to produce his own films too...

This is NOT a capitalist country. You all fear government involvement and it's already everywhere.
 
MCDU said:
Read for yourself. How have we let this job fall to a level of a school bus driver?

M

http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/must-read/mikes-blog-1-pilots-food-stamps
Click to expand...


Ya' know, you're swimming upstream by posting this. I agree with you 100%. But, the vast majority of pilots are Republicans, and they hate Moore. I believe they can't separate Moore's antics from the reality that he documents. God forbid anyone criticize big business, capitalism-gone-corrupt, or endless wars fought to the point of bankruptcy, because those people will be labeled by the Republican pilot workforce as anti-American. To me, seeing the corruption in these things is, actually, very American and very patriotic. If Rush Limbaugh were to make a valid point, I'll give him credit. But, even he claims that he's only in the business of becoming as massively rich as possibile.

So, let's start focusing on the message, and not the antics. Pilots everywhere: get it in your heads that our industry is not right. Please remind yourself: while your seniority number is at risk, someone out there is getting super rich. The more you rationalize this, the worse it will get.
 
zasca said:
This is NOT a capitalist country. You all fear government involvement and it's already everywhere.
Click to expand...

Very well said. Want to know something else? It's not a free country, either. Think about how the government can take your property and how the IRS can sieze your wages.

This is not a capitalist country. How can it be, when the insurance industry is protected by laws that actually allow them to collude? There's nothing fair about that. Corruption is not a tenent of capitalism. Fairness in the marketplace is. But, our system is set up to reward corruption.

This country is not set up for you and me. It's set up for the big corporations. Hell... when was the last time you heard of a "Mom-and-Pop insurance company startup?" If we had a capitalistic system, that would be possible. But, it's not. The big companies are protected by laws that enable them to kill any entrants to their territory.
 
Pizza pilots

westward said:
Having spent years at one of the worst commuter airlines around, I understand how difficult the job is. What I still can't understand is how someone can complain after willingly taking such a job.

Before I went off to the commuters I knew the pay was crap. I knew the working conditions and hours were horrid. I also knew advancement to the best jobs in this unstable industry was no better than a crap-shoot. Who among the readers here would like to admit they knew none of this?

And then, to complain to someone as disingenuous as Michael Moore is simple insanity. This person who makes millions in the capitalist system only to turn around and slam capitalism? That makes no more sense than complaining about a job you willingly accepted. Moore is simply an opportunist trading on the dissatisfaction of others. Do you really want that type of person as an ally?

Good luck.
Click to expand...

I think you missed the point. As a pilot preparing to leave (and a former pizza dude); it is about entrusting the public to such a low paid, perhaps somewhat bitter professional. Eventually, the pilots you want flying will leave the profession and it will be "pizza dudes" navigating the friendly skies. This is great news for pizza dudes, but not so for individual with higher monetary career aspirations (which has some correlation to talent).
 
Last edited:
ReverseSensing said:
Besides for the money part, you sure you're not posting about yourself?

What do people find so difficult about separating Moore's point from his antics? If that fooktard Glen Beck or that pill-popper Rush Limbaugh, or that skinny shrill wind-bag Ann Coulter engages in theatrics to make a point, you right-wing wackos are all hunched over in a corner pleasuring yourself to it.
Click to expand...

Awesome, and so true. They are so blind to see that their favorite hate monger is in it for the money. Rush made over 400 million last year. But they will tell you he doesn't do it for the money.
 
And what is a Barack and Dem controlled NMB doing about it – nothing of course. AA has three labor groups in federally mediated negotiations with no end in sight.


Last I heard from our union leadership was that we are way back on the back burner. Barack’s main concerns now are Health Care and the mid-term elections. The last thing he wants is to be burden down with some white collar pilots looking to improve their pay and quality of living.


So much for change!

AA767AV8TOR
 
Smart$$, Have you ever listened to Rush? If you have, you would know that he is not shy about the fact that he makes "insane profits".
 
zasca said:
This is NOT a capitalist country. You all fear government involvement and it's already everywhere.
Click to expand...

The opposite of capitalism is not fascism.

A lot of right-wing, anti-government types seem to be advocating a type of anarchy. Which is NOT what this country is founded on.
 
Since when are pilots "white collar"? Pilots are skilled labor. I was flying with a captain who was reading an article in the USA today with him bragging how he made more than most doctors. I pointed out how he needed his airline intact to make that amount. Airline goes away, he is no better than a $30 k/ year new-hire (assuming he wanted to start over after 25 years). Those doctors could leave their hospitals, or firms, and continue that salary elsewhere.
 
Still on point.

Penguin46 said:
I think you missed the point. As a pilot preparing to leave (and a former pizza dude); it is about entrusting the public to such a low paid, perhaps somewhat bitter professional. Eventually, the pilots you want flying will leave the profession and it will be "pizza dudes" navigating the friendly skies. This is great news for pizza dudes, but not so for individual with higher monetary career aspirations (which has some correlation to talent).
Click to expand...

To be more blunt: they are using safety as a springboard to complain about their situation. They took a job thinking it would lead to a better job. It hasn't worked yet and now they are angry and disappointed.

You cannot convince me those pilots took a commuter job only to expose the commuter airline industry. It's only after things didn't work out their indignation begins.

It's no different than someone who buys a house next to an airport and then begins to complain about the noise. And if that doesn't work, they next say the airport is dangerous and needs to be closed.

No different in my view.
 
AA767AV8TOR said:
And what is a Barack and Dem controlled NMB doing about it – nothing of course. AA has three labor groups in federally mediated negotiations with no end in sight.


Last I heard from our union leadership was that we are way back on the back burner. Barack’s main concerns now are Health Care and the mid-term elections. The last thing he wants is to be burden down with some white collar pilots looking to improve their pay and quality of living.


So much for change!

AA767AV8TOR
Click to expand...
At least their on the burner. Bush put them on the floor and then went and F'd up America.
 
I can't understand pilots who slam or hate Michael Moore on this movie. In his movie about Capitalism, Michael shows how difficult our lives have become and he interviews at least 2 pilots. Has making anti-Moore posts actually seen the movie?
 
I don't think there is a complaint against the message. It is the person bringing this story to light who is devisive.
 
samballs said:
At least their on the burner. Bush put them on the floor and then went and F'd up America.
Click to expand...

They're, on the burner moron! Oh yeah, Bush F'd up America, this from someone who can't be validated by even comprehending the english language!
 
Michael Moore is a seditious traitor. There are other venues for airing the low pay of pilots. If I had control this fat lying whale would never get on any plane I ever flew.
 
And we see another cause of our fall-
we disenfranchise ourselves. We get our money through collective bargaining and unionism- yet a majority of us do not believe in it or support it politically. Republicans don't care about us bc they stand against unions. Dems don't care about us bc we don't vote for them.
Obama certainly doesn't owe the conservative majority of pilots anything. Why would you think he does?
I do find it funny that conservatives among us argue against unions for everyone but us- yet propose no method that our careers could be set up in a more free market way.
 
westward said:
Having spent years at one of the worst commuter airlines around, I understand how difficult the job is. What I still can't understand is how someone can complain after willingly taking such a job.

Before I went off to the commuters I knew the pay was crap. I knew the working conditions and hours were horrid. I also knew advancement to the best jobs in this unstable industry was no better than a crap-shoot. Who among the readers here would like to admit they knew none of this?

And then, to complain to someone as disingenuous as Michael Moore is simple insanity. This person who makes millions in the capitalist system only to turn around and slam capitalism? That makes no more sense than complaining about a job you willingly accepted. Moore is simply an opportunist trading on the dissatisfaction of others. Do you really want that type of person as an ally?

Good luck.
Click to expand...

are you an FFDO also?
 

Share this page

Latest posts

Latest resources

Latest media

Carbon Cub FX-3 Shenandoah Valley
Carbon Cub at Kittyhawk
FX-3 in the backcountry
IFR Panel in a Carbon Cub FX-3
Cub-Provo-UT-c.jpg
Back
Top Bottom