A Perfect World

[HA25]

Re: Guilds

Interesting. Read up on union history. The trade guilds in Europe were the predecessors of today's labor unions.

I thought I'd save everyone a trip to the library and/or their Encyclopaedia Brittanica. I ran a search and found this link to an article about trade guilds.

Good link, thanks... BTW.. Guild is no perfect solution... but I await other ideas? We really need to do something.

 

[Typhoon1244]

WrightAvia...if you have nothing intelligent to add, then stay out.

Couldn't have said it better myself. Sorry, WrightAvia, but you're out in left field on this one...so much so that I thought you were being sarcastic at first.

You have, however, posted a perfect example of how pilots will never support an idea that will better the industry as long as it hurts them personally...and I'm no different! A national seniority list would make a lot of labor problems disappear. It would also mean that I probably wouldn't see the left seat of an airliner (or anything else, for that matter) before age sixty! I'd fight it tooth and nail, even though it would make the industry a better place for my children.

And I'm sorry, but anyone who doesn't believe in organized labor in aviation has their head in the sand.

 

[HA25]

And I'm sorry, but anyone who doesn't believe in organized labor in aviation has their head in the sand.

that really is what it's all about in the end. Proper, and meaningful organized labor.... it almost defeats itself in the current "corprate" state of separate MEC's and separate union groupes... at a minimum we need a model more like the UAW... some kind of true brotherhood, not just a "my airline is better than yours" model.

 

[canadflyau]

RIGHT ON!

that really is what it's all about in the end. Proper, and meaningful organized labor.... it almost defeats itself in the current "corprate" state of separate MEC's and separate union groupes... at a minimum we need a model more like the UAW... some kind of true brotherhood, not just a "my airline is better than yours" model.

BRAVO BRAVO

I have been saying that on here ever since I have been a member

 

[AceCrackshot]

The guild idea is ultimately the only good one, however, it does come with limitations...most people are coming to realize that job security is key. An excellent contract is no good at all if there is no airline to honor it. That is tied to airline stability, and that was guarenteed by the CAB. My feelings are that if we can't have stability on a corporate level, we need it on a national level.

I also wanted to interject some thoughts regarding deregulation.

My father and I discuss deregulation on a ongoing basis, and I hope I could bring 1/10th of that knowledge to the table. Not only does he have a resident MBA, he was on Capitol Hill for ALPA at the time of the hearings.

His conclusions, in summary not totality;

1. Deregulation in execution was designed to make a certain group of people wealthy. This group of individuals crafted the legislation, then executed it in such a way as to ensure their profit. Most then left the industry.

2. The pilot group in particular was extremely divided regarding support or opposition to the idea itself. The Delta and United groups, for example, were very positive on the idea because they saw growth for themselves. Others, notably TWA, Eastern, Braniff and PanAm knew their days were numbered because of a variety of factors. These factors were mostly the result of previous mandates handed down by CAB. Fleet mix, routes and hubs were dicated by CAB to service particular routes. An airline just couldn't go out and dump 120 707's and L1011's and replace them with 737's overnight. Or they could, and incure tremendous expense. Short-haul and new-entrants could tailor fleets much easier.

3. The safeguards built into the system to protect workers that would be dispaced by deregulation were ignored.

4. Financing was drastically affected. Previously, it was dictated by routes, post deregulation, it was dicated by slots. Legacy carriers with long haul routes had a difficult time raising money in environment where short haul outfits (DL, AA, UA) and their accompaning slots were where the money went to.

Sorry for the thread hijack...just figured that this needed to put put in the record somewhere.

Regards-

 

[bobbysamd]

Unions, guilds, etc.

In line with this discussion, we had a similar discussion on this forum a little more than a year ago. Here's a link to that thread.

 

[sf3boy]

FL717,
Great picture. I have actually flown that plane, after the incident. It flies just like you would think that it would. Good old Mesaba just couldn't pass up up a deal like that when Express wanted to unload it.

 

[HA25]

Re: Unions, guilds, etc.

In line with this discussion, we had a similar discussion on this forum a little more than a year ago. Here's a link to that thread.

Good link, I must have missed that great discussion... However, I think now we need to focus on what kind of union we need... as the ALPA model is a bit broken (I say this as a 7 year member)

 

[Wats]

My perfect world only needs a defined benefit pension.