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A new way for ALPA to collect dues

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a320drivr

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 27, 2002
Posts
385
ITEM 5: ALPA National Updates
5a: In light of the recent or impending loss of a large number of
pilots from ALPA, including those from US Airways, America West,
Skyway, Aloha, ATA, and Champion, ALPA faces a significant shortfall
in its operating budget from diminished dues revenues. The ALPA
Executive Council and Executive Board, at its recent meeting this
week, took action on two items that will help close the gap on this
funding shortfall.
The first initiative passed by the Council and the Board were the
adoption of two resolutions to change both the Constitution and By-
Laws and the Administrative Manual to allow 401(k) contributions to
be subject to ALPA dues for all ALPA pilots. Current policy exempts
401(k) contributions from dues if a 401(k) plan is the only form of
retirement plan available to a pilot group, such as here at PSA. If a
pilot group had access to a Defined Contribution or similar plan,
their 401(k) contributions would be subject to dues. With the
freezing or elimination of virtually all of these available plans at
those carriers, the pilots of those carriers find themselves paying
dues on 401(k) contributions while that plan is their sole remaining
retirement vehicle. In the interest of fairness and with
consideration of the fiscal shortfall, the Council and Board adopted
the proposed resolutions to subject all 401(k) contributions to ALPA
dues. This change will not take effect until it is approved by a 2/3
majority vote of the Board of Directors.
The second initiative passed by the Council and the Board was the
adoption of a resolution to change the way LEC surpluses are handled
by the Association. Currently, LEC budgets are funded from the
Administrative and Support (A&S) account based on a per capita rate
for each pilot in that domicile, with any LEC budget surpluses at the
end of the year being credited to that airline's MEC account for use
in the future. The resolution adopted by the Council and Board will
change policy to direct any LEC budget surpluses back to the A&S
account at the end of each year. This change will help close the
shortfall in A&S account funding and preserve the services available
to pilots, LEC's, and MEC's from the Association.
 
Why don't they just fire some of the no-loads that work there.
 
Or take away the ridiculous raises given to the office staff (who apparently make more than most of us) when they struck a few years ago. Almost every single constituent that they work for was taking pay cuts and losing jobs, and they all got raises.

If they start taxing 401k contributions (which the fed doesn't even do), it will be time to end dues check off and whatever else can happen.
 
Sounds like it's time to change from Alpo to Mighty Dog
 
so let me get this correct
(assume flight pay = $55/hr, for a particular month you got 87.0 hours credit/pay and you do 10% 401K)

dues collected now (before this bs proposal) are 87X55=4785 gross, less 10% 401k, 4785-478.5=4306.5
then they take the 1.95% alpa from the 4306.5 for
1.95%X4306.6 = $83.98

but now they want to

$55/hrX87h=$4785 time 1.95% = $93.31
 
ITEM 5: ALPA National Updates
5a: In light of the recent or impending loss of a large number of
pilots from ALPA, including those from US Airways, America West,
Skyway, Aloha, ATA, and Champion, ALPA faces a significant shortfall
in its operating budget from diminished dues revenues. The ALPA
Executive Council and Executive Board, at its recent meeting this
week, took action on two items that will help close the gap on this
funding shortfall.
The first initiative passed by the Council and the Board were the
adoption of two resolutions to change both the Constitution and By-
Laws and the Administrative Manual to allow 401(k) contributions to
be subject to ALPA dues for all ALPA pilots. Current policy exempts
401(k) contributions from dues if a 401(k) plan is the only form of
retirement plan available to a pilot group, such as here at PSA. If a
pilot group had access to a Defined Contribution or similar plan,
their 401(k) contributions would be subject to dues. With the
freezing or elimination of virtually all of these available plans at
those carriers, the pilots of those carriers find themselves paying
dues on 401(k) contributions while that plan is their sole remaining
retirement vehicle. In the interest of fairness and with
consideration of the fiscal shortfall, the Council and Board adopted
the proposed resolutions to subject all 401(k) contributions to ALPA
dues. This change will not take effect until it is approved by a 2/3
majority vote of the Board of Directors.
The second initiative passed by the Council and the Board was the
adoption of a resolution to change the way LEC surpluses are handled
by the Association. Currently, LEC budgets are funded from the
Administrative and Support (A&S) account based on a per capita rate
for each pilot in that domicile, with any LEC budget surpluses at the
end of the year being credited to that airline's MEC account for use
in the future. The resolution adopted by the Council and Board will
change policy to direct any LEC budget surpluses back to the A&S
account at the end of each year. This change will help close the
shortfall in A&S account funding and preserve the services available
to pilots, LEC's, and MEC's from the Association.

So I guess the way it seem now, alpa wants 'a piece of YOUR retirement money.'

Well, Herndon VA is not that far from Washington DC; and glad to see that the leadership has adopted the mantra of our elected leaders in congress. NO need to cut spending/expenses when we can just 'raise taxes.'

This might be a little easier for the membership to take, if, alpa leadership would have looked at reducing 'spending/expenses' First. Maybe the top officers of alpa taking a 10-20% cut in their $350,000+/yrs pay, or eliminating their 'living expense allowance' (currently about $9850./mth, in addition to their $350,000+/yr. salary), or reducing some of the office staff (you know, the $60,000-70,000/yr. Admin. Asst. etc). Well, I guess NONE of that is going to happen, what next, increasing the dues or assessments??

I guess it worked for them pushing so hard for them to change 'age 60,' so all of those guys, at top of scale, can stay around another 5yrs. to pay alpa more in dues.

Also, we have to face the facts; if even one DFR suit against alpa ever get before a jury (granted DFR suits are hard to prove and win, but a possibility with alpa recent leadership or lack there of), and wins a judgement again alpa, and they will be in 'receivership.' But, I guess they are already 'morally BK' so not far to go from there.

Just really, really Sad.

PD
 
ALPA's new Secretary/Treasurer was elected largely due to support of Group B airlines. I suggest if you are in group B you contact him ASAP with your concerns.

If your carrier has an A or B plan retirement program, you 401k was already getting taxed. This affects those companies with only 401ks.
 
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Cut Prater some slack. He told us he was "takin' it back".......apparently he meant from the membership as well.
 
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Let me get this straight...

They haven't been doing their jobs in representing their membership and protecting the profession...
To the extent that they have been and are on the road to being thrown out left and right...
SO rather than a complete overhaul of how they do things...they are going to FURTHER ALIENATE their membership who stuck around, and essentially TAX their retirement...something even the GOVT can not do.
Wow. :bomb: That just be the ignition match.
 
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How about we all just say no F'in way and if they don't back down on this re-call 'em all. they can cut thier pay and perks just as the rest of the industry has done.
 
How about we all just say no F'in way and if they don't back down on this re-call 'em all. they can cut thier pay and perks just as the rest of the industry has done.

Well, after alpa 'national' pushed for the change to age 60, against the wishes of a majority of the membership, many said then, 'recall prater.' Did go anywhere then, probably won't happen now.

alpa 'national' represents 'alpa national's interests' and very likely that will fight any attempts to recall anyone in leadership.

Its a 'corrupt' organization from the top down, and they will protect their 'kingdom' Count on it!! The 'membership' (rank and file), are nolonger the most important issue for them, they just 'pay lip-service' to the members, but make no mistake, it is all about 'the organization' and that is 'alpa national.'

For what its worth.

PD
 
Like I said earlier... Recall Prater. Do it now. He is hurting the profession as much as any manager.

Recalling Prater will not do anything. The US Airways pilots have the right idea. We all need to decertify ALPA at our respective airlines and start in-house unions. There is no unity between different carriers' pilot groups anyway. Why pretend? Look at NWA/Delta, US Airways/American West, majors/regionals, etc. ALPA is a bought-off, has-been organization that is hopeless. There are too many dishonest employees high up, and too many conflicting interests. IMHO, it's time for change. I am just a lowly line pilot so nothing I say matters anyway even if I am the majority. e.g. Age 65.
 
HEY ALPA raise my dues one penny and I'll do my best to make sure you are history...I'm sure I'm not the only one who feels this way
 
I'm still waiting for those normal 'alpa cheerleaders' to chime in; you know PCL, that 'PFT wanker' or REZ. Are you guys going to jump in here and defend that 'corrupt, useless' organization that we are stuck with, called 'alpa national.'

Were are you alpa 'cheerleaders'??? "Buhler, Buhler...."

Again, really, really SAD.

PD
 
The airlines that shutdown were the smallest portion of the dues lost. The largest portion, USAirways, was caused largely by Prater, Mr. politics before policy himself. He didn't operate in a vacumn either, much of the EC was to blame.

Send the bill to Prater, then get rid of him. So to speak. All you ALPA members better get on the phone to whoever represents you and make a hell of alot of noise.

One things for sure, this independent union movement could not have asked for a better ALPA president than JP.
 
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Send the bill to Prater, then get rid of him. So to speak. All you ALPA members better get on the phone to whoever represents you and make a hell of alot of noise.

The only reasonable sounding statement on this entire thread. Everyone else is chiming in like ALPA is some faceless dark force entity.
 
I agree that it's crappy for ALPA to tap the 401k.

The reason they are doing this instead of just raising the direct dues is that they think pilots won't notice. It's a "back door" increase. Why not go for an open dues increase? This comes across as greedy and sneaky. Again very crappy.

If ALPA intends to do business this way, they may find themselves in an even more tenuous situation then they already are.
 
Here is a list of everyone at ALPA who makes over $200k from 2006. Found at www.unionfacts.org

Air Line Pilots (ALPA)
National Headquarters Officers & Employees

Name Title Salary Benefits
& Other Total
Compensation
Duane Woerth President $ 348,345 $ 137,066 $ 485,411
Jalmer Johnson General Manager $ 391,742 $ 3,712 $ 395,454
Jonathan Cohen Chief Counsel/dir Legal $ 377,743 $ 4,898 $ 382,641
Bruce York Director, Representation $ 352,122 $ 27,464 $ 379,586
Paul Hallisay Director, Gov't Affairs $ 322,343 $ 8,305 $ 330,648
Kevin Barnhurst Director, Finance $ 309,347 $ 11,866 $ 321,213
William Roberts Asst Dir, Representation $ 296,480 $ 15,608 $ 312,088
Don Skiados Director, Communications $ 302,978 $ 7,476 $ 310,454
Jim Johnson Sr Managing Attorney $ 285,685 $ 13,223 $ 298,908
Jeffrey Small Sr Contr Admin/mec Coord $ 238,305 $ 44,555 $ 282,860
Keith Hagy Director, E&as $ 272,853 $ 4,024 $ 276,877
Liz Koby Sr Managing Attorney $ 263,999 $ 12,064 $ 276,063
Dennis Dolan First Vice-president $ 0 $ 273,875 $ 273,875
Dave Vance Director, R&i $ 267,768 $ 3,982 $ 271,750
Seth Rosen Director, Ipsc $ 229,472 $ 36,888 $ 266,360
Jim Wilson Asst Dir, Representation $ 253,410 $ 7,846 $ 261,256
Bob Christy Manager, Econ & Financial $ 230,553 $ 23,262 $ 253,815
Ana Mcahron-schulz Dir, Econ & Fin Anal $ 230,572 $ 18,825 $ 249,397
Patrick Brennaman Sr Contr Admin/mec Coord $ 229,600 $ 8,658 $ 238,258
Bob Lipsey Pension Inv Coordinator $ 234,656 $ 54 $ 234,710
Robert Nichols Sr Contr Admin/mec Coord $ 227,335 $ 4,446 $ 231,781
Russ Bailey Sr. Attorney $ 227,304 $ 3,038 $ 230,342
Marcus Migliore Managing Attorney $ 219,650 $ 4,883 $ 224,533
Betty Ginsburg Managing Attorney $ 219,088 $ 2,997 $ 222,085
Clay Warner Managing Attorney $ 219,733 $ 1,896 $ 221,629
Russell Woody Sr Benefits Attorney, R&i $ 208,478 $ 11,905 $ 220,383
Charlie Murphy Director, It & Services $ 213,633 $ 3,744 $ 217,377
Stephen Nagrotsky Sr Contract Administrator $ 207,006 $ 5,302 $ 212,308
Art Luby Asst Dir, Representation $ 201,536 $ 8,235 $ 209,771
Richard Domholt Sr Contract Administrator $ 199,861 $ 6,489 $ 206,350
 
I don't support Dues from the 401k.

If it is to happen then National needs to take a paycut.

In addition, 401k dues needs to be addressed at the 2008BOD.
 
Dear God.

Sometimes I'm an ALPA cheerleader, but this is ridiculous. I asked the question point blank at a recent union event if AAA leaving would open up a financial black hole and our MEC chairman said it wasn't a big deal.

I love the idea of one national pilot union. Just not so much this one at the moment.
 
Got anything accurate?

Wow! What a witty, yet informative comeback!

With how quickly some of you ALPA supporters have jumped on me, it's no wonder a lot of pilots are getting a bad taste in their mouths for ALPA. I'm no ALPA insider, and no veteran here, but as a line pilot I can describe how this looks from my position. And it looks bad.

Now if all of you want to just defend and ignore, go for it. But as a lowly line pilot, I thought I'd share my opinion of the issue. Take it for what it's worth.
 
Isn't this "tax" a bit regressive? I mean, it penalizes the pilots without a regular pension plan but doesn't touch the ones with. I suspect that the ones with a pension are probably at the higher end of pilot pay scales.
 

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