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A New Southwest/AirTran merger theory

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Eagle757shark

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 31, 2006
Posts
575
The Southwest "mystery" and my somewhat absurd theory.


4:05 PM Tue, May 26, 2009 | Permalink
Eric Torbenson/Reporter
First, the mild mystery: Why did Dallas' Southwest Airlines Co. stop its code-share work with Westjet up in Canada, claiming that it needed to redeploy resources in other areas?
Airline folks huddled a bit today here at the DMN about that and didn't really get closer to an explanation. Southwest has done code-shares before (ATA Airlines, before its demise) and it's not like re-inventing the wheel here: it's making computers talk with each other so you can sell seats on each other's airplanes. Maybe there were more problems in the integration than they had thought. But somehow an airline with 35,000 employees has to stop a project to re-deploy resources?
The other wildcard is Gary Kelly's mysterious comments at the Annual Meeting last week where he mentioned "revenue enhancements" that they can't talk about but are working on.
My totally un-sourced, not-to-be traded upon but not totally outlandish theory after the click:

Southwest Airlines is trying to buy Airtran Airways.
Or maybe at least thinking about it. Here's my theory: First, Gary Kelly & Co. have all but lost Wall Street, which is rather unimpressed with Southwest's rising labor costs and have lumped Southwest along with all the other airlines when in the past they treated it as a unique creature that deserved special treatment. That was when Southwest was growing quickly and charming folks; now it's shrinking and looks like a lot of other airlines in terms of its challenges. When I started writing about Southwest back in 2002, shares were touching $20. They're $7 now. Since employees are the largest shareholder group at Southwest, their morale would really improve along with the share price.
Airtran's top 15 airports are all also Southwest Airports, or are at least about to be Southwest airports once Southwest launches LaGuardia, Boston and Milwaukee service. The actual route overlap isn't nearly so great as Southwest doesn't serve Atlanta, Airtran's major hub, but I think that's increasing. More and more, Airtran and Southwest will match wits on pricing.
And I really think Southwest's pricing folks would like to price their product without having to worry how Airtran is pricing its product, as Airtran -- depending on how you're doing the math -- has equivalent or lower unit costs than Southwest on some cases and can really lower yields on routes they fly and still make money. The math behind any successful airline merger is 1+1= something less than 2 because less capacity plus more pricing power equals more profits. Buy Airtran, and Southwest can gain more pricing power in markets they already fly such as Orlando, Philly, Baltimore and especially Milwaukee, where Airtran is bulking up its fleet. And winning a huge market share in Atlanta? That'd be a very attractive addition to a network that already has lots of big cities in it and where Southwest is adding more big cities. You increase your national network, the more appeal you have to business fliers, and that's where the margin remains in the difficult airline business.
Southwest has the cash on hand to make such a bold play and recently took steps to pay off its bank credit line and raise more cash. Airtran's market cap is about $650 million. It flies Boeing planes that aren't exact matches of Southwest but are pretty close, plus it flies a fleet of 717s that might work very nicely on thin routes for Southwest (say, Love Field routes to Midland or other smaller Texas cities). I asked Gary Kelly back in 2007 about why he just doesn't buy AirTran and he said they'd probably buy somebody down the road but that the investing community doesn't make decisions for his airline. If you Google Southwest buys Airtran, that's actually all you get in terms of results - my question to Gary and his answer. Which is why it's still a pretty absurd theory - I don't see it out there in many discussions.
Airtran shares have popped up in the last few weeks from a 52-week low, but are still well below where they stood in the last peak of airline shares. Not sure how eager its board would be to getting bought out; Airtran is mighty proud of the low-cost carrier they've built and they're fierce rivals of Southwest. But they've got just under $400 million of cash on hand and storm clouds are coming in the form of potential oil spikes that, coupled with the current underwhelming demand market, could really damage a carrier of that size in a hurry. Southwest has $2 billion in the bank and the ability to securitize many of its planes for billions more - it's the only big airline out there with investment-grade ratings and it's played a very cash-conservative strategy for a long time.
Of course, there are plenty of reasons why this wouldn't be such a hot idea. Integrating airlines is, in fact, a form of delicate rocket science with potentially explosive impacts if done poorly. It's a high-wire act and often disastrous in terms of labor relations, which Southwest cares a lot about. It's hard to say how Wall Street would react to such a deal - I'd argue that any attention would be welcome. The plane fleets don't mesh perfectly (but compare that to Northwest-Delta), the price might be too high no matter what Southwest wants to pay because, as Gary Kelly said last week, "cash is going to be king" going forward.
For this armchair reporter, frankly, Southwest needs to take some big risks to once again capture Wall Street's attention and grab investors interests once again. It needs some way to differentiate itself from the pack, and not having baggage fees hasn't been that strategy so far. Your comments appreciated. It may be a terrible idea for Southwest to think about trying to swallow one of its competitors. But it's clear that Kelly & Co. want some sort of game-changer.
 
The line starts right behind the 9/08 newhire class. (thought I'd jump right in and piss everybody off from the get go.)

Gup
 
If we acquire/merge, I want my $7500.00 bucks back that I paid for the type. That or everyone else buys in. I paid for mine.

One thing is for sure.......this would be an equal-opportunity screwing. Mergers are only successful if everyone feels like they got screwed and mgmt. regrets it.

Duuuuude:erm:
 
The line starts right behind the 9/08 newhire class. (thought I'd jump right in and piss everybody off from the get go.)

Gup
You succeeded... ;)

p.s. I think DOH is highly overrated. I think AAI will buy SWA and staple all of you to the bottom of the list. Gear up, b*tch. :D
 
He's got the right idea, but the wrong carrier.
 
You succeeded... ;)

p.s. I think DOH is highly overrated. I think AAI will buy SWA and staple all of you to the bottom of the list. Gear up, b*tch. :D

Ever look at the balance sheets? This is Monopoly, not WSOP.
 
The line starts right behind the 9/08 newhire class. (thought I'd jump right in and piss everybody off from the get go.)

Gup

Tell it to the arbitrator. Who knows, he might have a sense of humor.
 
We can't merge. AAI has ground based wifi. LUV has satellite based wifi. At least I think that's what those Yakima rack luggage rack looking blue things on the top of the purple airplanes are. Either that or for extra bags.
 
The line starts right behind the 9/08 newhire class. (thought I'd jump right in and piss everybody off from the get go.)

Gup
Because it's all about you.....no wonder this industry is so screwed up! Explain to everyone on this board with some intelligence why you are entitled to putting all AirTran pilots behind 9/08 nehires. How absurd!
 
Because it's all about you.....no wonder this industry is so screwed up! Explain to everyone on this board with some intelligence why you are entitled to putting all AirTran pilots behind 9/08 nehires. How absurd!

I was jerking your chain bro..... sort of! :cool: Not gonna lie to you, if I had my choice you'd get stapled but A/M and B/M will be the reality.

It's all good,
Gup
 
If we acquire/merge, I want my $7500.00 bucks back that I paid for the type. That or everyone else buys in. I paid for mine.
...
Duuuuude:erm:

I'll "buy in" as long as I get back pay for the last four years of flying it at SW rates!!!

Saweeeet
 
Because it's all about you.....no wonder this industry is so screwed up! Explain to everyone on this board with some intelligence why you are entitled to putting all AirTran pilots behind 9/08 nehires. How absurd!

Don't get riled up over something that will probably never happen. If it does, all the chest thumping, Hee-Haw watching, Kool-Aid drinking SWAPholes can try and give the arbitrator a pool table or plasma TV, but it's not going to change his decision for a fair and equitable merger with our profitable airline.
 
Nothing would kill the LUV culture quicker than a merger with S/I. I'd like to think GK knows that.
 
With any possible integration with SWA, I only hope the arbitrator is less biased than ATC.
 
Nothing would kill the LUV culture quicker than a merger with S/I. I'd like to think GK knows that.

...and what culture are you talking about? Our pilot culture? It's the same as yours...we work hard, we deserve more, and we're interested in the future of our jobs. What exactly is different? If you're talking about the "Atlantitude" from our gate agents, or our compassionate :puke: management group, then I can understand a little better.

It's not gonna happen folks, but I'll still give this thread at least 7 pages of bickering about seniority lists and who's the bigger group of jerk-offs. ;)
 
I for one would welcome a merger with SWA.

Then we could finally get peanuts onboard!!

Just imagine SWA customer service agents rolling down ATL Concourses C & D like a crimson tide and rounding up all of our gate agents for "reconditioning training" on how to do their job properly and politely.

No more, "now boarding zone 1" followed in a frantic manner with "now boarding zones 2, 3, 4....hurry up! Zones 5, 6. Get on board! All zones, All zones!! We're closing the flight right now!!" As you look at the clock and there is still 20 minutes to go with passengers spilling out the top of an un-airconditioned jetway because the gate agent didn't follow the zone boarding protocol properly, as usual.

The ridiculous 40 minute boarding procedure would be replaced by a much more logical 30 minute procedure...or maybe even 25, so our F/A's could have a chance to actually get off the plane and get something to eat.
 
...and what culture are you talking about? Our pilot culture? It's the same as yours...we work hard, we deserve more, and we're interested in the future of our jobs. What exactly is different? If you're talking about the "Atlantitude" from our gate agents, or our compassionate :puke: management group, then I can understand a little better.

It's not gonna happen folks, but I'll still give this thread at least 7 pages of bickering about seniority lists and who's the bigger group of jerk-offs. ;)

It doesn't matter what any of us think; we fly the airplanes and management makes decisions about the future of us flying the airplanes. I can tell you first hand that the Airtran crews that I've met are a class act! Thanks for the ride to and from work and keep up the great product you offer!
 
It doesn't matter what any of us think; we fly the airplanes and management makes decisions about the future of us flying the airplanes.

That is a very true statement.

I can tell you first hand that the Airtran crews that I've met are a class act! Thanks for the ride to and from work and keep up the great product you offer!

You're always welcome! Thanks to SWA for taking care of our people as well.:beer:
 
Sun Country:
- In BK...no significant tangible assets
- Same terminal in MSP
- Same aircraft type
- Established Mexico,caribbean, and military ops

Just my .02

Wrong again.....its jetBlue!

BOS is our second largest base...SWA is coming into BOS but in a small way.

JFK is our largest base they get a new terminal and 30% of the NY market. We also fly out of LGA....we have 3 times the slots as SWA has in LGA. Don't forget HPN ....we carry Half the people that depart out of there.

FLL and MCO......we have 9 Caribbean destinations and Mexico, Costa Rica and Bogota.

LGB and LAX ....well LGB would be great to add to their LAX operation.

Oh ya.....40 E-190's and they want this kind of plane.
 
Because it's all about you.....no wonder this industry is so screwed up! Explain to everyone on this board with some intelligence why you are entitled to putting all AirTran pilots behind 9/08 nehires. How absurd!


Not my fight...but I'll throw my .02 in....EAGLE: Answer me this:
How many WN pilots have left for the greener pastures of Air Tran? How about going the other way? Will all of those former Air Tran folks now working for WN get the seniority they would have gotten under your plan?

Not saying that IF this does happen there should be a staple...but 4:1 or even 6:1 is absurd IMHO

BTW...not a slam on your airline...I like you guys...I just want you guys to stay you guys and not become us. Not up to me though.
 
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Why wouldn't you treat the AirTran pilots like you did the ATA pilots? You certainly showed them a lot of luv.
 
Not my fight...but I'll throw my .02 in....EAGLE: Answer me this:
How many WN pilots have left for the greener pastures of Air Tran? How about going the other way? Will all of those former Air Tran folks now working for WN get the seniority they would have gotten under your plan?

Not saying that IF this does happen there should be a staple...but 4:1 or even 6:1 is absurd IMHO

BTW...not a slam on your airline...I like you guys...I just want you guys to stay you guys and not become us. Not up to me though.
Ok all time dumbest post! What the hell are you talking about? I don't have a plan. If this thing does materialize, it is way above my pay grade. I posted an article written by an airline analyst. I didn't write it, read the damn post! I just fly airplanes. I don't care who left AirTran and went to Southwest, that was their gamble! So what the hell is your point? AirTran is a profitable thriving airline right now. AirTran is NOT TWA, not in bankruptcy and doesn't need Southwest in order to survive. Infact it is Southwest that is beginning to make moves showing they are aware of AirTran and their possibilities. Service to BOS, LGA, MSP, and now MKE. These may be pieces that Southwest is adding to its route structure, but with AirTran's cost structure and onboard amnenities, they have nothing to fear from Southwest. My passengers enjoy their assigned seats, the option to upgrade to business class, XM satellite radio, ability to purchase a snack, and now WI-FI. Thank you very much, you are now free to travel back to the hole you came up out of!
 
we didn't merge with ATA. It sucks that they lost their jobs, I won't deny that. this industry pretty much sucks in that regards.

Morris pilots have done pretty well. I've flown with some that I doubt were old enough to have an ATP when they came over to SWA. they've got 17 years seniority now at a fairly stable big airline with decent pay. there were even 2 or 3 pilots at Morris that had been fired from SWA, went to Morris, then came back with the merge.

Muse was an interesting story. I won't go into the particulars but basically we bought Muse to help out the guy who founded it (as he had helped found SWA but left in a snit and founded Muse as a 'back at you.') when their pilots wouldn't take what I've heard was a decent deal, Herb just shut it down.

Morris and Muse were well before my time. I may have details wrong but frankly, Morris was a few years old and tiny, same with Muse. It wasn't DAL/NWA or AWA/USair.

if you guys want to nurse 20 year old plus grudges, good on ya. I'm more concerned about the next 20 years.
 

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