A new low... Good luck Mesa Captains.

[Fltlvls]

Not to defend this sh!t hole operation, but losing an engine in a jet aircraft is virtually a non-event. Having 100 multi hours and getting hired to fly a CRJ isn't a big deal if you ask me. How about the guys getting hired to fly 135 checks in the middle of the night in overloaded Barons and 310's for example. They get hired with 15 hours of multi all the time and that's a hell of a lot more dangerous when an engine quits. There aren't many accidents attributed to losing control after an engine failure at these places either. I believe a lot of people who complain about low time hiring are pissed because they don't feel like people have paid their dues. That's fine, but safety of flight has virtually nothing to do with total multi time, at least in these jet aircraft.

I agree to disagree, the guys flying freight do not have a Captain , they are it , the problem with a low time RJ F/O is that they rely on the Capt and the automation too much, and when the automation does not work such as the autopilot or FMS or both, now that is an airshow to watch. What happens if the PIC becomes incapacitated, can that low time RJ F/O land the airplane safely by themselves.... doubtful, as a former Mesa Captain i can tell you from first hand experience with this problem.Mesa is starting to run into an even bigger problem....2 low time guys in both seats, that probably do not have 2000 hrs TT between the two of them, now is anyone scared.

 

[MalmsteenFan]

Wow and I still remember the day only a short time ago that my buddy with 2500 tt was so excited and lucky to be the first person in a LONG time to be hired by anyone. That was Mesa, airplane: Beech 1900.

 

[fried chickens]

I agree to disagree, the guys flying freight do not have a Captain , they are it , the problem with a low time RJ F/O is that they rely on the Capt and the automation too much, and when the automation does not work such as the autopilot or FMS or both, now that is an airshow to watch. What happens if the PIC becomes incapacitated, can that low time RJ F/O land the airplane safely by themselves.... doubtful, as a former Mesa Captain i can tell you from first hand experience with this problem.Mesa is starting to run into an even bigger problem....2 low time guys in both seats, that probably do not have 2000 hrs TT between the two of them, now is anyone scared.

Last time I checked Mesa and a lot of other regionals require 2500 tt for the capt. due to ICAO requirements. So your comment should be 2800 between the two of them.

 

[Bringupthebird]

Not to defend this sh!t hole operation, but losing an engine in a jet aircraft is virtually a non-event. Having 100 multi hours and getting hired to fly a CRJ isn't a big deal if you ask me. How about the guys getting hired to fly 135 checks in the middle of the night in overloaded Barons and 310's for example. They get hired with 15 hours of multi all the time and that's a hell of a lot more dangerous when an engine quits. There aren't many accidents attributed to losing control after an engine failure at these places either. I believe a lot of people who complain about low time hiring are pissed because they don't feel like people have paid their dues. That's fine, but safety of flight has virtually nothing to do with total multi time, at least in these jet aircraft.

So how much should you have to pay to get one of these guys? What are they worth 5-10 years down the road? Why should passengers be paying so that a guy can get "experience" that would justify (somehow) a higher paycheck? And why doesn't MESA ALPA step in and say enough is enough?

 

[Fltlvls]

Last time I checked Mesa and a lot of other regionals require 2500 tt for the capt. due to ICAO requirements. So your comment should be 2800 between the two of them.

Well when i upgraded i had less than 2500tt, it has been awhile since i have looked at the regs, i think the low timers are probably lacking something else for the ATP besides the 1500tt , then yes i think it would be around 2500tt.

 

[Fltlvls]

So how much should you have to pay to get one of these guys? What are they worth 5-10 years down the road? Why should passengers be paying so that a guy can get "experience" that would justify (somehow) a higher paycheck? And why doesn't MESA ALPA step in and say enough is enough?

I think the FAA needs to step in along with ALPA before it starts raining sheet metal .

 

[DirkkDiggler]

So how much should you have to pay to get one of these guys? What are they worth 5-10 years down the road? Why should passengers be paying so that a guy can get "experience" that would justify (somehow) a higher paycheck? And why doesn't MESA ALPA step in and say enough is enough?

I didn't mention pay in my quote at all because pay has nothing to do with whether or not these guys can be safe in the aircraft. Sounds like you have an entirely new thread to start on that one.

 

[T-prop]

Last time I checked Mesa and a lot of other regionals require 2500 tt for the capt. due to ICAO requirements. So your comment should be 2800 between the two of them.

There are quite a few CA's on the DHC in Freedom that have only 1510-1700 TT.

There is one, that as he was waiting for his FO IOE, went back and instructed so he could get his 1500hrs and is now a CA with all of 200 hrs SIC.

One CA has flown nothing larger than a Baron before he was hired on as a street CA. He couldn't have met the insurance requirements to fly a caravan before he came here.

And on the opposite end there are guys that are good sticks with 2000+ hrs with prior turbine time that are mature enough to wait and learn for 500 hours or more before they put their CA bid in even though they are desperate for the increased wage.

When they were hiring for the Freedom operation they were taking those who met the ATP minimums into a separate room and attempted to strong arm them into becoming street CA. Most of those guys were just instructors. Fortunately, most held their ground and are quite happy to be FO's after they have seen how the ops are.

 

[fried chickens]

Yeah I thought it was a hard 2500tt due to ICAO. Maybe that was just for the jets since the beech is eas and Dash don't fly international from jfk.

 

[ReverseSensing]

What happens if the PIC becomes incapacitated, can that low time RJ F/O land the airplane safely by themselves.... doubtful, as a former Mesa Captain i can tell you from first hand experience with this problem.

If an FO can't safely land an airplane by themselves, your check airmen/APD's/FAA inspectors need to sack up and start failing those FOs on their initial rides/recurrent pro checks.

 

[Leroy Smith]

Not to defend this sh!t hole operation, but losing an engine in a jet aircraft is virtually a non-event. Having 100 multi hours and getting hired to fly a CRJ isn't a big deal if you ask me. How about the guys getting hired to fly 135 checks in the middle of the night in overloaded Barons and 310's for example. They get hired with 15 hours of multi all the time and that's a hell of a lot more dangerous when an engine quits. There aren't many accidents attributed to losing control after an engine failure at these places either. I believe a lot of people who complain about low time hiring are pissed because they don't feel like people have paid their dues. That's fine, but safety of flight has virtually nothing to do with total multi time, at least in these jet aircraft.

Multi time can also be an indication of one's ability to work in a more complex and higher speed aircraft. No, 110-170kts is not screaming, but it does require a little bit more staying ahead than 70-105kts and nothing more complicated (systems-wise) than carb-heat.

Im afraid you are at least 5 years too late for the low-time multi job. If you can get a freight job with less than 300-500 multi, you will probably end up dead or violated cus the operation is uber-shady. Most FBO's wont even let you exercise your MEI without at least 100hrs multi anymore (and Ive heard of a few whose insurance required 300). Heck, a lot of FBOs wont rent their Mutli to you without 100hrs, if at all.

 

[T-prop]

Not to defend this sh!t hole operation, but losing an engine in a jet aircraft is virtually a non-event. Having 100 multi hours and getting hired to fly a CRJ isn't a big deal if you ask me. How about the guys getting hired to fly 135 checks in the middle of the night in overloaded Barons and 310's for example. They get hired with 15 hours of multi all the time and that's a hell of a lot more dangerous when an engine quits. There aren't many accidents attributed to losing control after an engine failure at these places either. I believe a lot of people who complain about low time hiring are pissed because they don't feel like people have paid their dues. That's fine, but safety of flight has virtually nothing to do with total multi time, at least in these jet aircraft.

You are an idiot. They can't even keep the ball centered with both engines operating, and freak out when they AP/YD is MEL'd.

You want to scare the living Sh-- out of a regional FO (or even CA) that has little previous flight time, just shut off the FD and have him/her shoot a visual approach with out the ILS dialed in.

 

[time builder]

It was a coincidence. I got the same email about the Chicago open house and I don't live anywhere near Chicago.

I got the same email, and I live in the west. I think they're just toying with me though, because the header said "From: American Eagle Airlines, reply-to: [email protected]."

ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

 

[BoilerUP]

If an FO can't safely land an airplane by themselves, your check airmen/APD's/FAA inspectors need to sack up and start failing those FOs on their initial rides/recurrent pro checks.

The only thing said in this thread worth repeating.

 

[T-prop]

Not to defend this sh!t hole operation, but losing an engine in a jet aircraft is virtually a non-event. Having 100 multi hours and getting hired to fly a CRJ isn't a big deal if you ask me. How about the guys getting hired to fly 135 checks in the middle of the night in overloaded Barons and 310's for example. They get hired with 15 hours of multi all the time and that's a hell of a lot more dangerous when an engine quits. There aren't many accidents attributed to losing control after an engine failure at these places either. I believe a lot of people who complain about low time hiring are pissed because they don't feel like people have paid their dues. That's fine, but safety of flight has virtually nothing to do with total multi time, at least in these jet aircraft.

Ya, safety of flight has virtually nothing to do with flight time and experience.

 

[Cloud F9]

Mesa's DEN base headed for closure

Just chatted with a friend in the training depart at Mesa-- they can't keep they Dash staffed and scheduling is flying everyone into the max 30hrs- - JR assigned.

They lost 16 Dash CAs last month... and more to come. Several guys coming over from freedom east coast - - but only after new training.
United is very upset at their performance and it looks like DEN is slated for closure and consolidate to PHX/GJT. Skywest's CRJs have been taking over little by little...

Watch for the new 'shoe' to house more RJs and little to no Dashes!

 

[Oakum_Boy]

The problem with low time FO's is they don't know how dangerous they are. They make life difficult for the captain, but that fact does not register with them. What a disaster this job has become. I'm flying with losers. Everybody is a loser.

 

[DirkkDiggler]

Multi time can also be an indication of one's ability to work in a more complex and higher speed aircraft. No, 110-170kts is not screaming, but it does require a little bit more staying ahead than 70-105kts and nothing more complicated (systems-wise) than carb-heat.

Im afraid you are at least 5 years too late for the low-time multi job. If you can get a freight job with less than 300-500 multi, you will probably end up dead or violated cus the operation is uber-shady. Most FBO's wont even let you exercise your MEI without at least 100hrs multi anymore (and Ive heard of a few whose insurance required 300). Heck, a lot of FBOs wont rent their Mutli to you without 100hrs, if at all.

Most of us at Airnet, which has an impeccable safety record in the Barons, 310's, Chieftains, and Caravans, were hired with less than 50 hours of multi. I myself had 15 hours. We're all still alive and doing well thank you very much. Good training and intelligence can keep you alive as long as you use them.

 

[DirkkDiggler]

You are an idiot. They can't even keep the ball centered with both engines operating, and freak out when they AP/YD is MEL'd.

You want to scare the living Sh-- out of a regional FO (or even CA) that has little previous flight time, just shut off the FD and have him/her shoot a visual approach with out the ILS dialed in.

That's what a yaw damper is for, and why do you want to make them shoot an approach without the FD? To show off? Grow up and face reality. There are absolutely no statistics to prove that ab-initio flight training produces higher accident rates. British Airways, Lufthansa, and KLM come to mind. Our attitude in this country is one of culture vs. statistics.

 

[DirkkDiggler]

Ya, safety of flight has virtually nothing to do with flight time and experience.

Again, reference the European model of flight training and quote me some accidents that were the result of low time pilots flying transport category aircraft. The statistics just aren't there.

I don't see anyone bashing AWAC for hiring 400 hour pilots. Tell me this isn't simply a Mesa bash just for the hell of it. Tell me it actually has to do with hiring low time pilots because you are really concerned about safety and not because you had to instruct forever to get a job or you had to fly checks for a couple years. If it's a safety things, why don't you guys give AWAC their share of grief because we certainly deserve it.