A Letter to Pres. Bush

[Resume Writer]

1st article continued...

Among concerns:
* Benefits and pay: Secure in the knowledge that they can get cheaper workers overseas, American companies might begin slashing benefits here, critics say. Even U.S. workers who get jobs could see wages slashed because of the competition posed by their counterparts overseas, they say. Companies have already been curbing benefits as labor costs -- driven largely by health care costs -- escalate.
Pay has also suffered as companies cut back on raises in a sluggish economy. As more companies start tapping overseas workers, critics say American workers will lose the last vestiges of their bargaining power.
At 123jump.com, a Miami Beach-provider of investment advice, the company's 32 financial analysts live in India, Bulgaria and Argentina, earning $15,000 to $20,000 a year.
CEO Manish Shah says he could shell out $150,000 or more to hire analysts here. But why? His analysts usually have MBAs and speak fluent English.
"Can we stop [globalization]? No," Shah says. "We go to the cheapest possible cost with the best possible product."
* Loss of American jobs: Labor unions and consultants fear a repeat of what happened to the manufacturing sector, which has lost more than 2.6 million jobs in the past three years.
The scope and type of jobs being farmed out show how vulnerable many professional positions are. J.P. Morgan Chase expects to have 40 research analysts in Mumbai (formerly called Bombay) by year's end. Deloitte Consulting has about 1,000 employees in Hyderabad and Mumbai, many handling research work. A.T. Kearney uses workers in New Delhi to for research and office support.
IBM has expanded offices in Bangalore, India, to handle engineering work, and is reportedly considering a big off shoring push. Hewlett-Packard has 5,000 employees in India, doing research, developing software and staffing call centers.
* An unstoppable force: While the overall percentage of jobs being farmed out to overseas workers is still small, the advantages to U.S. companies are so attractive that labor unions fear any congressional efforts to curtail the practice will be doomed.
Already, major companies are able to work around the clock because of their overseas presence. Oracle has two big development centers in India, and 4,000 employees will be stationed there by the end of the year. Programmers there pick up projects when their American counterparts leave for the day, and vice versa. That way, Oracle is working 24 hours a day.
The numbers are continuing to swell. Consulting firm Brulant recently surveyed 38 large companies about their outsourcing plans. While only 18 percent were seriously considering outsourcing, "100 percent of them were evaluating it," says CEO Len Pagon Jr.
If outsourcing takes off, it's unlikely to stop, experts say.
"The jobs aren't coming back, that's for sure," says Forrester Research analyst John McCarthy.
While the trend has been under way for years, only now -- as the pace of outsourcing picks up and new projections show its use continuing to grow -- is debate about the practice increasing. One reason for the attention is the recent economic doldrums. With unemployment at 6.2 percent in July, more white-collar professionals are becoming anxious about job security. While many have been shaken by layoffs, workers' new concern that jobs could be lost permanently to other countries is sounding an alarm.
Says Josh Bivens, an economist at the Economic Policy Institute in Washington: "This will cause more churning and concern higher up the professional food chain. Blue-collar workers have been used to this for years."
Since the first migration of white-collar work involved technology jobs, other employees in professional jobs thought they were immune. Now, office jobs many thought could never be done overseas are being farmed out.
Workers in India hired to handle telemarketing, for example, assume an American name and take cultural training in U.S. customs.
"In India, it's a very respectable job," says Chaitra Aiyar, 23, who works at Cellbion, a call center near Mumbai. She goes by the American name Cindy Newman when making calls.
Workers who have never set foot in an American office are handling such sensitive areas as payroll and benefits. Procter & Gamble handles payroll, travel, benefits, accounts payable, invoice processing and other work at offices in San Jose, Costa Rica; Manila; and Newcastle, United Kingdom. About 7,000 people work in these offices, which opened in 1999.
"There are real security risks," says John Guinasso at Data Systems Security in San Jose, Calif. "Corporations here don't have control over who has access to information once it gets out of their hands. There are real concerns."
Are the fears real?
Is all the hand wringing overblown? Labor groups say no, but companies and some analysts argue that shipping white-collar jobs overseas is hardly a menace to American jobs.
"The recession is making all sorts of people insecure. I don't see this as a huge threat to the U.S. economy," Bivens says.
Since labor and land in countries such as India can be cheap, the cost savings can be "extraordinary," says A.T. Kearney Vice President Andrea Bierce. An MBA with three years experience in India will make about $12,000 a year, compared with $100,000 in the USA, she says. A programmer will make $5,000, compared with $60,000 in the USA, she says.
"There are an awful lot of companies thinking about this," Bierce says.
But it's the fact that overseas workers are so cheap that has detractors crying foul.
It even gnaws at some employers. David Stixrood, president of Dallas-based Corp-Wireless, which provides broadband wireless connectively to the Internet in truck stops, opted not to use an overseas help desk -- even though it was cheaper -- partly because he's concerned about what outsourcing will do to American jobs.
"We're going to lose all those jobs," Stixrood says. "Unfortunately, we live in a very competitive world and sometimes competition is very cruel."

 

[Resume Writer]

2nd article

U.S. overseas payrolls grow
The practice sparks protest, but firms call it cost-effective and good for business.
By Clint Swett -- Bee Staff Writer
Published 2:15 a.m. PST Monday, January 26, 2004

It's an unrelenting parade.
Oracle plans to shift 175 jobs from Rocklin to India. EarthLink is closing a 450-person call center in Roseville, with some of those jobs reportedly heading overseas.
IBM expects to send 3,000 jobs from the United States to other countries this year.
Nearly weekly comes news of large corporations -- ranging from Intel to Delta Air Lines to Google shifting services jobs from the United States to emerging nations, such as India, China and the Philippines.
A globalized economy fueled by tech-savvy workers in low-wage countries and a telecommunications system that makes instant communication cheap and easy are fueling the trend.
But it is also sparking anger in this country as the economy musters only anemic job growth while emerging from a three-year recession.
The tension was apparent at a meeting in Washington, D.C., earlier this month when technology executives gathered to defend sending jobs offshore.
"There is no job that is America's God-given right anymore," Carly Fiorina, chairman and CEO of Hewlett-Packard, said according to published reports.
The company, which has shipped a number of jobs overseas, recently decided to move about 100 contract tech support jobs from Roseville to Canada and India beginning in April.
Intel Chairman Craig Barrett also argued that such "offshoring" strengthens the company overall, allowing it to add more jobs in the United States.
He pointed out that workers in China, India and Russia "can do just about any job in the world, adding: "The U.S. has a very simple choice to make. We have to decide if we're going to be competitive in those markets."
The current wave of offshoring, most agree, continues a pattern established decades ago when jobs in textiles, clothing manufacturing and electronics assembly were shipped overseas. What's different today, experts say, is that service jobs are now moving out because there's a well-educated and low-wage work force on the other side of the world linked to U.S.-headquartered companies via a sophisticated telecommunications network.
In addition, most software development is done on common systems such as SAP or Microsoft, making it easier to hand off jobs from one country to another.
Much of the recent attention goes to the large number of computer programming and call-center jobs that have been shipped offshore.
But American companies are making use of other specialists, too. Radiologists in India, for instance, read X-rays and other scans for U.S. hospitals. Even some companies that prepare U.S. income tax returns use Indian accountants to crunch the numbers.
For companies like Intel and HP, the potential savings are compelling.
The Wall Street Journal reported recently that internal IBM documents show that a Chinese programmer would cost $12.50 an hour, compared with $56 an hour for a U.S. programmer.
With that kind of wage differential, Forrester Research analysts estimate that 600,000 service jobs -- ranging from software development to phone sales -- will have been shipped overseas by 2005. That number could hit 3.3 million by 2015, Forrester says.
Coming as it does as the economy is struggling to recover from a loss of more than 2 million jobs over the past three years, the trend appears alarming.
But experts, while not discounting the individual pain workers feel from the offshoring, say it's inevitable and ultimately beneficial to the economy because it strengthens U.S. companies.
"It's a powerful trend and can't be stopped," said Mark Zandi, the chief economist at Economy.com, which estimates some 300,000 jobs were shipped offshore in 2003. But he also said offshoring is playing a role in the current jobless economic recovery.
"It's one reason why we haven't seen more job creation," he said. "It's not the only factor, but it's a significant factor."
Experts, however, say offshoring has little to do with the technology slump that has plagued Silicon Valley since the beginning of the decade.
"Silicon Valley lives and dies on innovation and the next round of startups," said Steven Levy, an economist with the Center for the Continuing Study of the California Economy in Palo Alto. "The really major event of the past three years was that startups plummeted when venture capital plummeted. The formation of new firms essentially ceased."
The accelerated trend in offshoring is also an indication of an economic philosophy that's been developing for decades.
"In the last 20 years, we in the United States have accepted that the most important job a corporation does is to satisfy its shareholders," said Martin Kenney, a professor of human and community development at the University of California, Davis.
Under that philosophy, a firm would feel compelled to jettison a $75,000-a-year accountant in the United States for an Indian with equivalent skills who would earn $12,000 a year, especially when competitors are doing the same thing, he said.
Such logic does little to comfort Vicki Nelson, an Elk Grove software engineer who was laid off from her job with the Alldata division of auto parts supplier AutoZone in 2001.
Since then she's plundered her savings while scraping by on a series of part-time and temp jobs. And despite numerous attempts, she has been unable to land another position in the computer industry.
"All the work is being done in India and other countries," she said. "I have a B.S. in computer science and now it's worthless."
Others are equally dismayed.

article continues...

 

[Resume Writer]

2nd article continued...

Scott Kirwin, founder of the Delaware-based IT Professionals Association of America, said he lost his job as a programmer for financial services giant JP Morgan Chase in March when his position was outsourced to India.
He said sending jobs offshore is a false economy because foreign programmers are generally less experienced and not as well versed in the business processes as their American counterparts.
"The programmer who replaced me made one-eighth of what I did, but after you add in the infrastructure, it might have been a 30 percent savings," he said.
"When you factor in the intangibles, those savings evaporate."
The fear and anger over the lost jobs is heightened by the fact that for more than a decade, so-called knowledge-based skills such as computer programming were seen as the key to job security.
"Instead of just manufacturing, these jobs (going offshore) have come from the service sector, and we're not used to that," said Fariborz Ghadar, who heads the Center for Global Business Studies at Penn State University.
The pace of the change also is coming as a shock, because the economy has less time to generate new jobs to replace the ones sent overseas. While it might take a year or more to set up a manufacturing operation, all software writers need is a computer and a high-speed Internet connection.
"The speed at which this is happening may make it tough for the economy to absorb seamlessly," said Kenney.
The savings ultimately benefit Americans, Kenney said. An insurance company, for example, can afford to hire more Indian claims auditors, who in turn can more thoroughly scrutinize claims. That could reduce insurance fraud and perhaps lower premiums.
Using less-expensive radiologists or other medical experts might put a dent in health care costs, he said.
In addition, wage earners in foreign countries are likely consumers of American goods, which could boost the U.S. economy.
But such arguments haven't dampened a backlash aimed at stemming the offshoring tide. A conference last week in New York City drew more than 150 executives interested in learning about offshore opportunities and about 20 demonstrators protesting the exodus of jobs.
Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry said he would require overseas call centers to disclose their locations to callers.
The state of Indiana recently canceled a $15 million computer consulting contract with an Indian company, even though it reportedly was $8 million cheaper than the next-lowest bid.
And lawmakers in 14 states, though not California, have introduced bills to restrict offshoring jobs, though none has yet passed, according to the National Conference of State Legislatures.
Kirwin of the IT Professionals group said his organization and others plan to make offshoring a major election issue.
"It's an important issue and draws people to the polls," he said. "Politicians haven't outsourced the vote."

 

[Typhoon1244]

Re: The Greatest Generation

What happened to the days of WWII? The days when our entire country stood "together", "united?"

Here's my speculation:

World War II was a turning point in World History. Never before had there been a war with so many deaths that was so well publicized. Also, the last two major bombing raids of W.W. II forever changed the nature of warfare. America and her allies prevailed, but many of our fighters came home battered and bloody. Many never came home at all. (Yeah, I know: that happens in all wars, but not in such huge numbers.)

I think a lot of Americans came out of the Second World War with a sense of "boy, that was awful! Let's not do that again!" The advent of nuclear weapons gave us a glimpse of the kind of hell that future wars might bring. W.W. II showed Americans just how ugly combat can be.

Anyway, that's what I think.

I don't have any ideas about the other social issues you asked about, but I do want to remind everyone that the "Greatest Generation" raised one of the most selfish group of people ever to live in America: the "Baby Boomers." People who stayed married for decades in the middle of a global war gave birth to people with the highest divorce rate in history. What's up with that?

 

[BORN2FLY]

Re: Re: The Greatest Generation

I don't have any ideas about the other social issues you asked about, but I do want to remind everyone that the "Greatest Generation" raised one of the most selfish group of people ever to live in America: the "Baby Boomers." People who stayed married for decades in the middle of a global war gave birth to people with the highest divorce rate in history. What's up with that?

That's my point. You can look throughout history and see the trend of evolution that has led to the disfunction that infects our current society. By sharing my opinion, I wasn't looking for an "actual" answer. That answer is blatantly obvious. It's just a shame that more people don't think about it. As far as the "baby boomers" are concerned, that is a perfect example of my point. It's also a shame that you would actually place blame on the very individuals who died to give you the right to criticize, for the misguided views of a bunch of "hippies." They were the first part of the problem.

 

[Timebuilder]

Again, unless he was passing tactical information to the V.C. (which he wasn't) or inciting men to turn and run on the field of battle (which he didn't), than nothing he did rises to the level of "treason."

Here is my understanding: when Kerry returned from being in-country, he founded Vietnam Veterans Against the War. The war was still going on, and literature WAS being shipped to those still serving, encouraging them to desert.

I think that fits your requirement for "treason."


Resume Writer, I found the details of the call center training very intreresting. The "Cindy Newman" idea tells me that there should be a new national movement to ask pointed questions of call center personnell, such as the name of the town and the high school attended, perhaps with a "hey, I say next to a Cindy Newman in History. What was your teacher's name?"

It is a completlely American idea to call companies to task, if you desire, and refuse to buy their products if they outsource the jobs you want to see remain here. Publicize it. There's nothing wrong with doing that. I don't think it will make a large impact, but it will no doubt help people to feel better. And if enough people make themselves heard, some company may begin to promote itself as a company that has not outsourced, such as that Khaki manufacturer we discussed a couple of months back. There is a cost to not outsourcing, but the cost may not be as great where calling, IT, or garments are not in play.

Asking the president to fix something that is legal, growing, and in the economic interest of the United States (according to experts, which I do not consider myself to be) is most likely an exercise in futility. This is becoming more of a "world" economy every day. As I look forward two centuries (sort of a daydream) I see that many of the unique cultural and constitutional freedoms we have fought so hard to maintain may be lost to socialist government ideas of centralized healthcare, high taxes, and a European sense of entitlement as the ecconomic realities of a global workforce seek to equalize, seeking their own level like water in a tube.

The best thing that we can do right now is to work within the confines of our creative minds and turn lemons into lemonade.

We've done it before.

 

[Resume Writer]

Resume Writer, I found the details of the call center training very intreresting. The "Cindy Newman" idea tells me that there should be a new national movement to ask pointed questions of call center personnell, such as the name of the town and the high school attended, perhaps with a "hey, I say next to a Cindy Newman in History. What was your teacher's name?"

It is a completlely American idea to call companies to task, if you desire, and refuse to buy their products if they outsource the jobs you want to see remain here. Publicize it. There's nothing wrong with doing that. I don't think it will make a large impact, but it will no doubt help people to feel better. And if enough people make themselves heard, some company may begin to promote itself as a company that has not outsourced, such as that Khaki manufacturer we discussed a couple of months back. There is a cost to not outsourcing, but the cost may not be as great where calling, IT, or garments are not in play.

Asking the president to fix something that is legal, growing, and in the economic interest of the United States (according to experts, which I do not consider myself to be) is most likely an exercise in futility. This is becoming more of a "world" economy every day. As I look forward two centuries (sort of a daydream) I see that many of the unique cultural and constitutional freedoms we have fought so hard to maintain may be lost to socialist government ideas of centralized healthcare, high taxes, and a European sense of entitlement as the ecconomic realities of a global workforce seek to equalize, seeking their own level like water in a tube.

The best thing that we can do right now is to work within the confines of our creative minds and turn lemons into lemonade.

We've done it before.

Have you thought about the prospect of eventually everything going overseas? IF that happens, then we will depend on every other nation for everything we buy. IF that becomes the case, then the prices of everything will skyrocket, because we are depending on others to produce our goods. When these other countries become rich making products that we need, the price will go up. We will depend on them, just as we depend on oil.

 

[Resume Writer]

BTW Timebuilder...

I noticed that you never did reply to my post about the CEO's and their "handpicked" Board of Directors. If you do not think that is true, let me tell you a little story...

I was speaking to my father about this very issue. He had a friend that was the CFO of a very large corporation. This man was likely to be named the CEO (before the company was bought out). My father's friend asked him to sit on his board if that came to fruition.

If you do not think this happens at nearly every corporation you are wrong. I watched while one airline CEO stacked his board (and incidentally sat on everyone elses board) with all of his buddies. How do you think they get golden parachutes, great bonuses and pay raises? The Board and the CEO control the major portion of stock and therefore can vote whatever pay increase or benefit they want. Now, they bury the numbers in the compensation portion of the entire company in the annual report. Incidentally, the annual report of most companies is nothing more than a good PR piece. Most shareholders never attend a meeting. I have also seen companies that hold shareholder meetings in obscure places so that the average person could never attend.

Just my "uneducated" observations...

 

[sqwkvfr]

Hey timebuilder, DITTOES!!

I wanted to add one thing....the supposed "obvious" solution to outsourcing is more new laws stopping companies from doing such.

Has anyone stopped to think about why these companies find it so expensive to do business in the USA in the first place?

Simple: unreasonable environmental and labor laws (and numerous other types of restrictions) and the skyrocketing cost of liability insurance and/or fighting frivolous litigation.

Piling on more restrictions will be disastrous: These corporations pull up stakes and move out of the country, downsize considerably or completely shut down.

The solution to this isn't as simple as passing new laws; and W (Harvard MBA) knows this. John F***ing Kerry doesn't get it.

 

[Timebuilder]

Have you thought about the prospect of eventually everything going overseas? IF that happens, then we will depend on every other nation for everything we buy. IF that becomes the case, then the prices of everything will skyrocket, because we are depending on others to produce our goods. When these other countries become rich making products that we need, the price will go up. We will depend on them, just as we depend on oil.

I HAVE thought about that possibility.

Like the economists, I see this as leading to every country buying our superior and lower priced GOODS.

No one has apparently come to the conclusions that you have worried about, though. I wonder why that is. Perhaps, because they study economic systems and their variables for a living?

Just a thought...


And I never addressed your observation about CEO's and boards of directors because it strikes me as one making an oberservation that every airplane has some sort of wing.

The people that companies can rely on for board service are their friends and comtemporaries, just as you would see the hiring at a rap record label or a Korean grocery store. This happens in aviation, too. The chief pilot first calls his friend whom he knows has flown the type of aircaft his company uses, and done so safely for many years when thinking of hiring another pilot. So too when it comes to baord of director service. Their friends are "known quanities", and most serve on several boards. They are familiar with the duties, and have personal reputations to protect. Most could be doing better things with their time, so the perks are an added inducement to encourage board service. Most are invested in the companies they guide, so they have as much to lose as the stockholder that has 100 shares of class B, except that they own far more, and have a lot more to lose.

Perhaps you are of the opinion that board members should be brought in from the street, just to add a different opinion. They could do that, and might do it, if it would somehow benefit the company. Most of the time, that would fall under the category of a nice hollywood screenplay.

 

[Timebuilder]

One more thing, Kathy.

I'm happy you share your opinion here. That's good. I have no idea if you are educated, although you seem to get the grammar right, which suggests you have a better education than many other people.

You simply may not be paying as much attention as others to the many discussions about this topic, and somehow got the idea that this trend could be altered by the president in a way that would not harm the economic future of the United States.

I'm not arguing with the observations about the effects on American lives as jobs are transferred overseas, I simply see this as an unstoppable trend that must be approached creatively with improved cultural views on education and hard work, along with training for things that we still do best, and which constitute a "niche" for American expertise.

That's a big challenge, but I think we are up to the task.

 

[Resume Writer]

One more thing, Kathy.

I'm happy you share your opinion here. That's good. I have no idea if you are educated, although you seem to get the grammar right, which suggests you have a better education than many other people.

Goodness, I sure HOPE I get the grammar right...since I WRITE for a living!

Yes, I do have an education; in fact I have three different degrees. One of them in Journalism! At least the letter I wrote to the President was grammatically correct! He may not be able to do anything, but perhaps he will hire me as a staff writer!!

 

[Timebuilder]

Good for you.

I learned something from this. I had no idea that there was a "certification" for resume writers.

Do you have a link to the goverening body for this certification?

 

[Resume Writer]

Sure....it is www.parw.com I obtained my certification in the early 1990's. It is an all day test with knowledge of employment laws, grammar, career counseling scenarios and writing two resumes from information they provide you. The test itself took about 4-5 hours and was graded by a committee.

I am studying now for my Master Resume Writer certification from another organization, in addition to a Credentialed Career Master certification. I take my work very seriously and join other organizations that compliment my business.

 

[English]

Can somebody PLEASE help Timebuilder find a job already? He has WAY too much time on his hands!

Between politics and religion, you'll soon have more posts than Bobbysamd...

 

[Typhoon1244]

Here is my understanding: when Kerry returned from being in-country, he founded Vietnam Veterans Against the War. The war was still going on, and literature WAS being shipped to those still serving, encouraging them to desert.

Mailing pamphlets is a far cry from what I said: encouraging men to desert on the field of battle. I got a lot of junk mail when I was in the service, too...including a lot of religious crap. I didn't give it any more attention than the VVAW's literature apparently got.

I don't think either one of us is going to vote for Kerry, T.B. But I haven't made that decision based on right-wing propaganda.

 

[Timebuilder]

I don't think either one of us is going to vote for Kerry, T.B. But I haven't made that decision based on right-wing propaganda.

Glad to hear that. Neither will I, based on anyone's propaganda. I think the issues are far too important to leave a high quality known entity for an unknown entity of questionable quality.

 

[Typhoon1244]

I think the issues are far too important to leave a high quality known entity for an unknown entity of questionable quality.

First of all, I had to read that sentence twice. (I only got a 3.45 GPA, man. Cut me some slack! )

Secondly, just because I'm not voting for Kerry doesn't mean I am voting for George II. "High quality known entity?" Please!

I'll vote for TABExpressF/O before I vote for W.

 

[Timebuilder]

Between politics and religion, you'll soon have more posts than Bobbysamd...

Not much chance of that happening. I think I'd purposely keep several posts behind Bobby.

I'll be in New York all next week (my opportunity to try Brother Jimmy's BBQ) so I won't be posting for a while.

You guys can start the Mel Gibson "Passion" thread without me.

 

[b757driver]

What would you suggest I re-train for?

Oh boy, I thought I had seen it all.

For what it's worth, those who support the outsourcing of jobs "because it is good for the economy" are the very ones who have half-way decent jobs (still) and are comfortable knowing they will never feel the pain (maybe). Indeed, that used to be a certain CEO's mantra.

This is neither the time nor place to discuss the details of how I and many of my former coworkers lost their jobs - and more. Let's just say it was more on the lines of another Enron but much smaller scale.

Sure, it's about greed. Let's not kid ourselves, folks. I've seen it first hand as everything went down the toilet. You surely don't believe for one moment that it was the employees who were ultimately responsible for the company's demise? You would have had to experience it yourself to truly appreciate it. The ones who suffered greatest were certainly not the CEO or his board (yes Kathy, you are spot on with the buddy issue here - have witnessed it in all its glory).

My God, no wonder there are so many labor problems in this country. If you take a peek at the really successful companies, they all share a common trait and culture. Employees are valued as a primary asset and recognized for their contributions not just as a necessary evil. Management are open and able to think outside of the box and when times are bad, show by example. The whole working environment is conducive to productivilty and pride in your work. This then becomes a win-win situation.

Talking of countries and different systems, for the record, I once lived in a former communist country, so have first-hand knowledge of those kind of regimes. Those on this thread who talk about socialism, frankly, do not have a clue! Probably learned it in college out of a textbook - I have lived it, I know.

For the record, I have no great love for either Republicans nor Democrats. However, I do seem to remember that somebody, somewhere said that the buck stops with the President. It is the administration's policies that shape the economy to a large extent. Also, isn't the President supposed to "run the country"? If this is all true, then a certain (but not all) amount of blame has to go that way. Otherwise, what's the point of having the office in the first place. You can't run a country and then turnaround and say, oh well, it's not my fault that jobs are being outsourced far faster than they are being created. That is a cop-out for any politician.

You can massage statistics any which way you want. As a result, you can omit certain factors such as those who are no longer claiming unemployment or have moved on to a McJob because there are no decent jobs for them anymore. You know the types I'm talking about - minimum wage, part-time, no benefits, have to have a second or third job just to make ends meet as all your worldly goods are being repossessed. Yes, very nice job creation here.

Having spent the majority of my life in the aviation business, both overseas and here in the US, as well as having worked in departments other than flight ops, I have quiet a wide perspective. I chose to return home to the US from working for a foreign carrier because I wanted to work for an American carrier and not have to commute internationally for years on end. If you like, I could consider myself as being outsourced then. I was paid very well and did very well but personal circumstances made it necessary for me to return home. It worked fine for a couple of years and I can tell you this - it had NOTHING to do with money but everything to do with quality of life - I took a huge pay cut by coming home and putting my faith in an American company. Yes, I knew the risks and that is why it is so ironic. The foreign company is still around, making a profit and is a market leader while the American company is dead and gone. I have worked all my adult life and have endured layoffs more than once but nothing like this.

In case any body doubts it, I want to work and have already spent $1000s on my job hunt as well as pounding the pavement - you name it, I've tried it. Even that 737 TR did not produce a single interview - can you believe it? I'm talking interview, not job offer. And I know I'm not the only one in this position. That's why the DOL put stringent conditions on WIA funding because even the govt. eventually realized that re-training in an another aircraft was no guarantee that you would end up in a new job. They were quite happy to dole out the money, but the success rate of the program was, in the end, dismal. Why? Because there were insufficient jobs, pure and simple. How about ensuring jobs were there first and then conduct the program? I have no idea of actual numbers but the fact that the program was seriously curtailed, speaks for itself. They may as well have given me the money in cash for all the good it did.

And yes, I looked outside of aviation as another option, using "transferable skills" like computing. I was told forget it, you won't get any funding for that, it's the same as the airlines, no jobs (presumably all outsourced?). What was left? Massage therapy and medical billing. Great I thought, just what I was missing. Shucks, instead of getting my two degrees, ATP with numerous type ratings, military background etc., I should have predicted the demise of the US airline industry and settled my sights lower. Way to go, how silly of me!

So, to suggest that I am a lazy, good-for-nothing sponger, is, to my mind, quite hilarious. As I said, I am and have always been, perfectly willing to work so I can pay my bills. But when my job/profession is taken away from me through no fault of my own AND future opportunities are being denied because I do not have a job AND there is nothing comparable as an alternative, it kinda puts you in a bind. This is not Economic 101, it is reality. You really can't have it both ways. Either supply the jobs - or pay for the unemployment. It has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with motivation, attitude, skill level, experience, creed or culture for the vast majority of displaced American workers. I guarantee, they would ALL rather be working in decent jobs with decent companies.

My question, where are all these wonderful jobs out there that some speak of? I don't see many in this part of the country as I read the paper each day - more likely, stories of even more layoffs. Frankly, I have never seen it this bad in several decades, so I'm not surprised at that quote about Bush residing over the worse economic period this country has seen since Herbert Hoover's days. Whichever way you cut the cheese, all this is happening on his watch. Listening to all those political speeches and back-trackings, gives me zero confidence that things are getting better. Some are still waiting for this to truly materialize.

For those flaming Kathy, you are only perpetuating the divide of those that have and those that do not. She, at least, is trying to help those less fortunate than herself and not always charging for advice or suggestions. Her seminar classes are getting bigger, not smaller. She is helping people get back on their feet and that should be applauded, not criticized. Unlike some politicians, she is at least doing something - not just talking about it. That has value that some cannot comprehend, apparently. Some of you should talk to other nationalities about American culture and values and one of the things you will find is this inate concept of greed. The instant gratification no matter how you get it and at whose expense. Yes, money and profits are essential requirements of any capitalistic society but at what price? Small wonder we have become more and more isolated in the international arena. Instead of working together and trying to make this country a better place, we are becoming more divided. And as Kathy says, once ALL the jobs have been outsourced (everything points to an increase, not decrease), what then? You, too, will be out of a job.

Those foreign workers must be amazed in that they no longer have to emigrate to enjoy a better lifestyle, just have American jobs shipped over.

According to the pundits, even GWB's own job is no longer a slam dunk. Who knows for sure what will happen in November? Maybe instead of having all these primaries and the general election, the ideal solution would be to outsource the President's job to a Pakistani (no offence to any race intended). Why not? After all, it would be much cheaper and less hassle.....