A Career Question

[NEDude]

Wesb737fo,

I don't have a problem at all with B1900 pilots, I don't think that they are any more qualified than a 135 jet captain, but apparently AirTran thinks so.

Apparently AirTran is telling people from my company that B1900 is not very valuable. This comes from the WAI conference. I believe the phrasing was something to the effect of "It takes 4000 hours of B1900 PIC to equal 1000 hours of Jet PIC".

 

[lakelivin]

The way I figure it, the best airline to work for is the one that hires you!

Chime in here... I work for x-jet(coex) so CAL has always been on my short list. Prior to them hiring I got busy networking for UPS an FedEx. I am currently in the pool w/ UPS so they are the best (and only for me ). I will still work on the others until I am in training but the major down side to CAL is the bases...CAL like every where else has it's problems but I think they will be one of the legacy airlines to pull through still smelling like roses...

 

[-9Capt]

I'll state one more time, just for the record, I think the 121 PIC time requirement is B.S.

However, it has been the experience of the AirTran training dept. that pilots with prior 121 capt and/or prior military flight experience are better able to upgrade after 2-3 yrs.

Fact of the matter is, starting tomorrow, they can require 20,000hrs and at least one shuttle mission and they'll still be over-run with resumes.

 

[SWA/FO]

Total BS..... in my opinion, I believe flying in the middle of the night in a Falcon 20 is better time then a B1900. However, I don't believe in the above post about the 4 to 1 time conversion.

I once heard from a former military pilot (as we were getting out of the hotel van) and current SWA Capt. that 10000 hours of civilian time = 1000 jet fighter time. The Captain, I was flying with (civilian too) looked at me and we started laughing.... right.

The airlines make up the rules of the game.

 

[-9Capt]

Total BS..... in my opinion, I believe flying in the middle of the night in a Falcon 20 is better time then a B1900. .

Exactly what part of my post is "Total B.S."?

All things being equal, personally, I'd take the 1900 guy. He already knows the part 121 regs, CRM, airline training, and has probably hand flown quite a few 1800RVR appchs. without an autopilot, in the middle of the night.

You may not agree with AirTran's policy, I don't either, but regardless of what you deem B.S., AirTran has had better success with prior 121 guys, that much is fact (sorry TY).

 

[Double Shot]

I left Continental for Southwest. Best thing I ever did. Continental was and still is a major dissaster.

 

[English]

I'll take a job with ANY airline on the list in ANY order!

That comment scares me.

 

[aa73]

Guys, don't put all your eggs in one basket. Remember, no matter how bad you want to work at SWA/UPS/FedEx/Airtran, etc.... you will still be at the bottom of their respective seniority lists. Anything can happen.

Personally, I'd go with the first one that calls. If it's CAL I'd go in a heart beat. You only live once, roll the bones.

73

 

[enigma]

I will add Continental to my short list and apply. At the present, I am only applying to SWA, but am danged near to deciding to send in stuff to AirTran and JetBlue.

No, I don't think that I would pursue any of the other legacy carriers. Maybe AA, but they've got way too many on furlough to even think about them at the moment.

Here's my ranking, and it's heavy on the "MY".

Anybody who has been a flightinfo'r for more than a month knows that I put SWA at number one.
Then, Continental, Airtran, and finally JetBlue. I think that all three of the companies would be a fine place to work, but I factor in a commute when I rank them for my situation, and CAL has a base close to my house. AirTran and Jetblue don't. I don't include FedEx nor BigBrown, because I have no desire to attempt being a FE. If they hire into the right seat, they'll get into my ranking. Not that there's anything wrong with the FE, I just don't know if I could be a very good FE. Personal preference and all, you know.

If I were to offer a ranking based upon what I thought was the best in general (instead of best for my specific situation) it would be: FedEx UPS, SWA, JetBlue, AirTran, then Continental.

Goods will continue to be transported, and that puts the freight companies on top. SWA is the proven entity among the carriers, and they are personel friendly, they get the next highest rank. And they are continuing to grow.
JetBlue treats their people exceptionally well and is on a roll. I liken JetBlue to the new, hot nightclub in town, everybody want's to be there, or ride them as it maybe. They will continue to grow.
AirTran is well managed, but not as "showy" as JetBlue. They too, will continue to grow.
And finally, Continental. They are well managed, but I'm not sure about growth. It seems that their hiring projections are somewhat based upon retirements, but I wonder what a pilot retirement age increase will do to anyone who happens to get hired in the near future. Even at that, If I were offered a job there tommorrow, I'd resign from Spirit in a hearbeat in order to go to IAH.

regards,
enigma

 

[English]

Why does that "scare" you?

The bottom of any legacy carrier's list is absolutely the wrong place to be right now.

It is amazing how many pilots have been brainwashed into thinking that is the golden carrot.

Been there, done that.

 

[English]

I can't even stay up til 10, much less all night.

No thanks.

QOL means more to me than money, frankly. I already have plenty of money.

Maybe I'm getting *old*. But I only stay up late for friends, family, and fun, not work.

 

[skykid]

Both are going to soon be the only ones left with a chance at making the big bucks like in the good ole days, flying widebodies around the world with a secure pension to look forward too when you retire.

I wouldn't count on that in the long term. I agree they are the most stable right now if you can do the schedule, but both FedEx and UPS pilot groups will be under incredible pressure to mirror the wages of passenger airlines. I know they are making great profits. I would say their pensions are more secure. Once the legacies have matched LCCs and gotten rid of their pensions, then FedEx and UPS will have that pressure.

CAL is scary, as are all the legacies, because consolidation is going to take place. You may be on the good end of the deal, maybe not. Long term (say 20 years) I look for very little left of the legacies. LCCs will dominate domestic travel and foreign carriers will do our international flying.

I think Airtran is in for some good times. One way or the other, Delta is going to have to pull their domestic schedule down by double digit percentages in the next year or two. Airtran will benefit greatly.

Hope I'm wrong about all of the above.

 

[Dinger]

GuppyKiller.....It turns out flying wide-bodies all over the world just isn't as much fun as it sounds..........but I gotta say, it still beets working for a living.

I am with English.......give me QOL......or give my wife her recall back to NW in the -9 so I can get QOL through her!

 

[bayoubandit]

I think I'm with English on this one too.

I have applied to all listed and will apply to CAL also, but after getting the boot from one legacy I don't think now is the time I want to make another move. I'm finally regaining some of what I lost.

I figure an app. can't hurt. I can always decide if ever called by one of them.

Maybe one day a recall will come around.

 

[Dinger]

I honestly think that getting hired by any of the Legacy's anytime in the future would be great.

Domiciles are a concern with CAL. It is a good thing the have a little "paradise" in CLE, because I couldn't live in Houston or NY/NJ. (please note the sarcasm).

 

[General Lee]

I wouldn't count on that in the long term. I agree they are the most stable right now if you can do the schedule, but both FedEx and UPS pilot groups will be under incredible pressure to mirror the wages of passenger airlines. I know they are making great profits. I would say their pensions are more secure. Once the legacies have matched LCCs and gotten rid of their pensions, then FedEx and UPS will have that pressure.

CAL is scary, as are all the legacies, because consolidation is going to take place. You may be on the good end of the deal, maybe not. Long term (say 20 years) I look for very little left of the legacies. LCCs will dominate domestic travel and foreign carriers will do our international flying.

I think Airtran is in for some good times. One way or the other, Delta is going to have to pull their domestic schedule down by double digit percentages in the next year or two. Airtran will benefit greatly.

Hope I'm wrong about all of the above.

What? Ok Nostrodamas. Why again will DL pull down their domestic schedule by DOUBLE DIGITS? What? They just added 80 flights a day in ATL alone and are in the process of getting $5 billion A YEAR in savings. They are beginning heavy mx outsourcing (like everyone else), and have made ATL a more efficient hub. We are in the process of trimming our fleet numbers, as in different types of aircraft. When again will the GREAT California earthquake be? You seem to think you know all of the future answers.... You forgot to understand that all of the legacies are getting leaner and getting rid of waste, and when this downturn turns around, will be ready to fight again. Look at USAir, they are still around after everyone thought they would be gone a year ago. Do you have the GA Lotto numbers for Sat night???? LOL.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[bestpilot]

If I have to leave, I suppose my dream line-up would be SWA, UPS, FEDeX, CO, JBLU, AirTran, AWA.

Delta is actually my number one choice (being a Georgia boy) but I don't think they are going to be hiring any time soon. Any encouraging words, General Lee?

Duuude, like your my brother from a Georgia mother, but you got all sorts of love for Delta, but you gots the Tranny #6 on your list. Wazzup wit dat, bro? You gots to explain the logic here, cause you sounds like you been puttin some thought into this.

I'm diggin dat CO brought all the dudes back from the street, but you put em in front of the Blue Dudes and the Tranny? Maybe Ive had too many brewskis, but I'm confused.

 

[bestpilot]

I'll take a job with ANY airline on the list in ANY order!

Duude, it's like really wierd. What if you get hired at the Tranny, or Continental, or the SWA? The "GuppyKiller" flyin' the Guppy. I don't know but dats some bad kharma, my brother from the 70-seat mother.

 

[PastFastMover]

You are right, anything can happen, like getting on with FedEx or UPS and living my dream. Flying a widebody around the world making big bucks. But I'd still take SWA or the others in a heartbeat too.

FedEx and UPS, both great companies. My friends that work there have told me that it takes basically 7 to 10 years to finally come to the realizatioin that you will live your life on the back side of the clock. If you can handle this, go for it. I personally cannot handle this. My current company also has all night freighters that pay more than flying pax (night time, big airplane, etc.). After doing it for 3 months, I could not get away from it fast enough. No FA's to talk with, no passengers to talk with, Just the same 2 or 3 crewmembers all night long. Everyone is different, if it suits you, go for it!!

 

[Clyde]

I wouldn't count on that in the long term. I agree they are the most stable right now if you can do the schedule, but both FedEx and UPS pilot groups will be under incredible pressure to mirror the wages of passenger airlines. I know they are making great profits. I would say their pensions are more secure. Once the legacies have matched LCCs and gotten rid of their pensions, then FedEx and UPS will have that pressure.

LCC's transport people. UPS and FedEx do not transport people. LCC's are passenger airlines in a passenger airline environment. There are too many seats chasing too few people.

UPS and FedEx are in the business of moving goods all around the world. UPS is, in fact, a very large transportation conglomerate with many different parts. Trucking, logistics, warehousing, and supply-chain-management just to name a few. UPS does not have the expense burden felt by the passenger airlines. They are also very profitable. $3B+ in profits, and this is more the norm than the exception. Big Brown owns the majority of their assets, and a lot of them are leased from the leasing company owned by Brown.

We are the smallest segment of the company and we generate the largest amount of revenue.

"Once the legacies have matched LCCs and gotten rid of their pensions, then FedEx and UPS will have that pressure."
Why, because AirTran will eventually carry packages to Hong Kong cheaper than us? Because Frontier's trucking side and supply-chain-management will move packages around the world a lot cheaper than UPS or FedEx?

I can't help but laugh everytime I read something like this. A company cannot totally axe a pension plan unless they are in Chapter 11 Bankruptcy protection. Being a public owned company, I doubt UPS or FedEx would file Chapter 11 just to get rid of pensions.

And, in case anyone is wondering about LCC's in the cargo industry, they have been around already for years. The companies out of YIP and the supplementals flying under ACMI's. The reason they cannot threaten UPS or FedEx is because they are not the companies that UPS and FedEx are. I'm not talking about money or jets, but rather the structure of the business and the variety of services offered by them.