A-320 question

[DTW320]

I forget....how many fatalities with that crash?

 

[wmuflyguy]

I forget....3how many fatalities with that crash?

3 dead 130 paxs on board...kind of amazing considering the fire shown in the video.

 

[B6Busdriver]

If I recall correctly (lot of that going on around here), the pilot of the "A-Tree-Twenty" was going to do an alpha floor demo. That is where, even at idle, if you get too slow, the plane will go full power and if you are holding full back stick, will climb out of it at just above stall speed. Quite a spectacular demo.

There is just one MINOR problem with that. It is disabled at a low radio altitude because, well, if it were active, there is a chance that the power would go to full while you are in the flare trying to land. Obviously not a good thing.

Anyway, the demo pilot flew the low pass considerably lower than briefed, so when he got slow, the plane would still not stall, perse, but the power remained at idle. They were in "Flare" mode and were essentially floating down the runway. They eventually did the obvious, shoved the thrust levers forward. The engines spooled, but by that point in time they were cutting pine....

Below 100 feet there is no AlphaProt in regards to autothrust. It is interesting to note that there was some missing data on the FDR. This is after the French Government and Airbus got their hands on the "black box."

http://www.airdisaster.com/investigations/af296/af296.shtml

 

[elag777]

It has been a long time since this accident. I forget, what was the reason for this crash?

a/c below 100' and auto thrust was off bad stuff happens then.

 

[Donsa320]

a/c below 100' and auto thrust was off bad stuff happens then.

As I recall, the auto thrust was not off but he had retarded the thrust levers to flight idle. Then, as he let the aircraft slow while trolling for Alpha Floor, there was no incremental thrust increase as he got to and below Vref. The aborted landing then began from Flight Idle. His defense was that the engines were too slow to respond. Arg!

DC

 

[Toobdrvr]

The answer is "No".

You guys must be a blast in checkrides...

j/k.

 

[clickclickboom]

Lots of great feedback when you enter FLARE mode and the aircraft autotrims nose down so you get to feel the feedback while you " pull the stick" which by now we are all experts at.

Regardless of the wacky control laws and protections this has to be the most comfortable and user friendly aircraft ( Once you figure out how it's brain works) that I have ever flown.

 

[Marko Ramius]

Donsa320,

You can't have the thrust levers at flight idle and have the autothrust engaged. The engagement range is from just above flight idle to the CL detent 2 engine and just above flight idle to the MCT detent SE. Autothrust must only be available for Alpha Floor to work provided you have enough RA which this a/c didn't. Good explanation of Flare mode by the others, too many non Airbus people have confused this to think that it means the plane has 'decided' to land no matter what which isn't the case.

 

[Donsa320]

Donsa320,

You can't have the thrust levers at flight idle and have the autothrust engaged. The engagement range is from just above flight idle to the CL detent 2 engine and just above flight idle to the MCT detent SE. Autothrust must only be available for Alpha Floor to work provided you have enough RA which this a/c didn't. Good explanation of Flare mode by the others, too many non Airbus people have confused this to think that it means the plane has 'decided' to land no matter what which isn't the case.

I just double checked with a friend of mine who is a 320 DE for Airbus. The throttles in the case we are talking about were placed at flight idle. Yes that does disconnect the auto thrust but Alpha Floor is still available above 100 ft RA. That airplane did have Radio Altitude.
I think you might be confusing things with the CFIT accident at Strausberg wherein the crew missed a stepdown and descended early. That airplane did not have GPWS. Some company officials got jail time for that even though French regs at the time did not require GPWS.

DC

 

[Marko Ramius]

I just double checked with a friend of mine who is a 320 DE for Airbus. The throttles in the case we are talking about were placed at flight idle. Yes that does disconnect the auto thrust but Alpha Floor is still available above 100 ft RA. That airplane did have Radio Altitude.
I think you might be confusing things with the CFIT accident at Strausberg wherein the crew missed a stepdown and descended early. That airplane did not have GPWS. Some company officials got jail time for that even though French regs at the time did not require GPWS.

DC

No we're on the same page Donsa. What I meant by, "Autothrust must only be available for Alpha Floor to work provided you have enough RA which this a/c didn't." was that they were below 100 RA which as others have noted disables that protection leaving only Alpha Prot.

From what I remember about Strasbourg, the crew went right through their stepdown at an excessive descent rate. At that time, V/S only used 2 digits on the FCP just like FPA and there was speculation that the crew mistakenly selected something like a 3,200 fpm descent instead of a 3.2 FPA. I don't think they ever conclusively determined the actual mode selected, but Airbus changed the V/S display after that. I remember the no GPWS thing, but what always struck me about that one was the SA loss. I don't care if the throttles don't move, a 3,200 fpm descent on any approach should get your attention, let alone the fixes on the chart, or the FMA's, or rad alt.