A-320 ETOPs ? VA yesterday

[SLUF4]

32-seat all business class. LCY-SNN-JFK and JFK-LCY on the return:

http://www.nycaviation.com/2009/08/...jfk-club-world-service-begins-september-29th/

And no non-revs allowed, for those who were thinking about it

they did .72 mach on the track too...yes, we passed them

 

[On Your Six]

320 could easily make HNL.

Empty...... Why doesn't anyone do it now? A319s probably have better range, but less seats means less profits when you are competing against Hawaiian A330s.



Godspeed!


The OYSter

 

[Chairman]

No ETOP proving run. New aircraft delivery.

The Etops proving runs can be anywhere it does not have to be done over water. Involves more MX stuff and cold starting APU's at altitude than plotting across the tracks....

 

[CesnaCaptn]

If A320 gets ETOPS VX can save alot of money on fuel to CUN. Currently, A320 flights can't venture beyond 162NM on CUN route while ETOPS flights shoot straight across gulf.

You don't even need ETOPs to fly across the gulf. You just need limited over-water and class II nav certification.

 

[CTflyer]

jet blue flys a-320 across the atlantic when they are picking up deliveries.

With stops in either Iceland or Gander.....

 

[landlover]

they did .72 mach on the track too...yes, we passed them

did he have his blinker on the whole way too?

 

[HAL]

The Airbus goes across the Atlantic because you can do that with a 120 minute ETOPS approval. The A320 family however is restricted to a 120 minute range because that's how Airbus certified the aircraft. It can't do a mainland-Hawaii flight because that requires a 180 minute certification. I suppose if Airbus ever wanted to, they could go through the expense of certifying the 320 family for a 180 minute ETOPS, but then they'd lose a lot of range because, just like the 737, they'd have to carry extra ETOPS fuel, and run the APU the whole way across the Pacific. It just doesn't seem reasonable that they'd do that.

Therefore - Virgin America is not doing 'proving runs' to Hawaii. Like an earlier poster said, it's a delivery flight. VX may be aiming for ETOPS flights, but that would only be for the Atlantic/Caribbean/South America flying, not Hawaii.

HAL

 

[Headfake14]

So many guys totally don't understand ETOPS. Good Explanation HAL.

And you don't need ETOPS for caribbean flying...just rafts and life vests. Our (JB) A320s go just over 400 miles off shore and the E190 is just under that...380ish I think. JFK/BOS straight line to the islands. No ETOPS needed.

VX, you're not getting ETOPS. You're barely making $$ as it is now. Cost benefit not there.

 

[XJAVRO]

The Airbus goes across the Atlantic because you can do that with a 120 minute ETOPS approval. The A320 family however is restricted to a 120 minute range because that's how Airbus certified the aircraft. It can't do a mainland-Hawaii flight because that requires a 180 minute certification. I suppose if Airbus ever wanted to, they could go through the expense of certifying the 320 family for a 180 minute ETOPS, but then they'd lose a lot of range because, just like the 737, they'd have to carry extra ETOPS fuel, and run the APU the whole way across the Pacific. It just doesn't seem reasonable that they'd do that.

Therefore - Virgin America is not doing 'proving runs' to Hawaii. Like an earlier poster said, it's a delivery flight. VX may be aiming for ETOPS flights, but that would only be for the Atlantic/Caribbean/South America flying, not Hawaii.

HAL

The 320 is already 180 minute ETOPS certified. Here is part of the press release from 2006.


Airbus A320 Family approved for 180 minute ETOPS by the FAA
Wednesday, 10 May 2006
Toulouse (AIRBUS) - Airbus A320, A321 and A319, including the corporate jet version, are approved for 180 minute extended range twin-engine operations (ETOPS). The approval was granted by the Federal Aviation Administration after European Aviation Safety Agency (EASA) had granted the same approval in March 2004.

The first 180 minute ETOPS aircraft certified by the FAA, an A319 corporate jet is planned to be delivered in May to an undisclosed US customer.

A318 ETOPS approval (EASA and FAA) is targeted for 2nd half of this year, leading to the complete Airbus Single Aisle Family to be ETOPS certified by both Authorities.

This 180 min ETOPS Type Design approval granted by the FAA recognises the compliance of aircraft design with current US ETOPS rules and the significant ETOPS experience accumulated worldwide as well as the high reliability of A320 family ETOPS operations.

ETOPS, is an International Civil Aviation Organisation (ICAO) rule permitting twin-engined commercial aircraft operators to fly routes that are up to 180 minutes flying time from the nearest airport.

 

[Flyiguy]

The Etops proving runs can be anywhere it does not have to be done over water. Involves more MX stuff and cold starting APU's at altitude than plotting across the tracks....

Read my post. I never said anything about how, why, where ETOP proving runs can be done. I just said it was not a proving run, it was a new aircraft delivery.

 

[Flyer1015]

The A320NEOs could do SFO-HNL and yes VA is hiring an ETOPS manager.

 

[Old School 737]

Read my post. I never said anything about how, why, where ETOP proving runs can be done. I just said it was not a proving run, it was a new aircraft delivery.

New delivery??? Over the pacific?? Thought A320's were make in France? Also the crew was chatting on 123.45 with a UsAir crew. They said they were flying to test the route out? see if it could do it?? Could have been BS but VA guy was asking the Cactus guy about somebody he knew was trying to get on the airways flight.

 

[Flyby1206]

VX ETOPS Program Manager job posting:

https://www.virginamerica.apply2job...ction=mExternal.showJob&RID=863&CurrentPage=1

Published Job Title: ETOPS Program Manager Airport Location: Virgin America HQ
Country: United States
State: California
City: Burlingame
Description: Meet Virgin America

Virgin America is a brand new airline dedicated to making flying good again. Virgin America incorporates the Virgin Brand’s world-renowned customer focus and distinctive style, to create a high-value, low-fare airline that’s reinventing domestic flying through award-winning service and innovative amenities.

Are you Virgin enough? Virgin America loves team members with the thirst and creativity to make this the most wowed airline in the sky. In return, we promise to make this a company where inspired people like you will always thrive.

Main Areas of Responsibility

• Participate actively in the development and approval of ETOPS requirements, defining the processes and procedures and facilitating approval of Operations Specs.
• Ensure ongoing compliance with all ETOPS processes and procedures in accordance with approved program.
• Interface with the FAA as required and ensure continued compliance with all regulatory requirements for an ETOPS Maintenance Program.
• Communicate with the executive management on the ETOPS fleet reliability at scheduled Reliability Meetings
• Communicate daily operational issues with the appropriate departments as well as the FAA if required.
• Coordinate all changes to the ETOPS maintenance program and manual with the appropriate departments within Tech Ops as well as other divisions as applicable
• Review, monitor, and evaluate aircraft, maintenance program and process changes for potential impact to the ETOPS program.
• Monitor Reliability Data for the Airbus A320F fleet for adverse trends that could affect the ETOPS fleet and participate in the event investigations process as required.
• Review, monitor, and evaluate ETOPS related alerts.
• Interface with the industry on regulatory changes
• Interface with the FAA (regional and headquarters) personnel regarding new or revised proposed rulemaking affecting ETOPS
• Monitor new station and/or city pair startup as well as existing ETOPS designated maintenance stations for trained personnel, adequate tools and equipment and adhering to approved ETOPS processes and procedures
• Monitor configuration status of ETOPS fleet
• Prepare and file ETOPS authority applications with FAA
• Prepare monthly ETOPS operating summaries and associated reports.
• Reports to Director of Engineering

Professional Experience Required

• Must have a minimum three years prior ETOPS program management experience.
• Must possess the ability to read and understand diagrams, manuals, and technical documents.
• Must possess the ability to read and understand regulatory documents, and demonstrate knowledge of FAA requirements related to ETOPS program.
• Must have the ability to develop conclusions based upon analysis of aircraft ETOPS related problems.
• Must demonstrate a strong working knowledge of aircraft systems.

Professional Certifications and Education Required

• Airframe & Powerplant license required.
• Prefer experience with TRAX.
• Prefer prior Engineering, Reliability or Maintenance Program experience.

 

[Flyiguy]

New delivery??? Over the pacific?? Thought A320's were make in France? Also the crew was chatting on 123.45 with a UsAir crew. They said they were flying to test the route out? see if it could do it?? Could have been BS but VA guy was asking the Cactus guy about somebody he knew was trying to get on the airways flight.

Sorry, my bad. I read it as an Atlantic crossing.

 

[Tomct]

Head,

Yes, VX will be going to Hawaii. Pick up our first Bus w/ winglet's, which will make the crossing in Sept of 13'. Going to be a very good route for us as well...lots of requests from our guests for the route.

 

[jonjuan]

Head,

Yes, VX will be going to Hawaii. Pick up our first Bus w/ winglet's, which will make the crossing in Sept of 13'. Going to be a very good route for us as well...lots of requests from our guests for the route.

Very good? Meaning full seats? Have you seen the yields to Hawaii?

 

[Old School 737]

Head,

Yes, VX will be going to Hawaii. Pick up our first Bus w/ winglet's, which will make the crossing in Sept of 13'. Going to be a very good route for us as well...lots of requests from our guests for the route.

I thought they were Sharklets.... Or whatever

 

[Flyer1015]

Very good? Meaning full seats? Have you seen the yields to Hawaii?

One of the problems with Hawaii is that flights have boatloads of non-revs, both ways.

 

[Snapshot]

One of the problems with Hawaii is that flights have boatloads of non-revs, both ways.

Not if you restrict it. 10 seats out of 160 go to no revs.

The company is pretty agressive in pushing for approvals.

They got around those pesky Cabotage rules by buying off the Regulators...Why would ETOPs be any different?

Who's the current Secretary of ETOPs? Look for him to be on the board of directors next to (bought and paid for) Samuel Skinner.


Do they think they're fooling anyone?

 

[Ralph Cramden]

Give it a rest Snapshot. We got around those pesky cabotage rules by being 75% US owned and proved it twice. I think your leather helmet has shrunk while you were in it.

We will be applying for 180 minute ETOPS to do HI. In order to do that, a certain experience level is required, hence the delivery flights under ETOPS. We also plan to do CUN with a more efficient routing. Not sure if doing this route under ETOPS rules vs simple extended over water will count in the experience requirement, but that's the plan.