9E/XJ/9L contract is out

[WayBack]

We all know that you have no self-respect, and that you were molested as a kid, Wayback.

No need to broadcast your lack of self worth to everyone.

HA! Coming from a guy who will take a lousy, insult of a pay raise for better work rules.
Obviously you haven't been around long enough to watch management molest, rape and pillage work rules.

 

[dcfu69]

Murf,

I agree with what your saying... to a degree. If this was a Colgan ONLY contract then it would be fairly good. But its not, its a contract for ALL 3 of the airlines, a JOINT contract and that is how we should look at it. Having said that I think that we could have done better with all three of us at the table negotiating instead of just Colgan. To be honest I am still on the fence about my vote and am open to both sides of the argument. I just feel that our negotiating guys felt pressured to get this thing done ASAP and it shows in some of the areas of the contract. I do not think it is at all a "Industry Leading" contract and I HATE it when alpa guys pound their chest a keep blabbing this stupid term because it is in no way 'industry leading'. Industry average? Sure I'll buy that, just not leading.

 

[CoATP]

Industry Leading but less than average ... sounds like Pinnacle.

 

[Simon Says]

Murf,

I agree with what your saying... to a degree. If this was a Colgan ONLY contract then it would be fairly good. But its not, its a contract for ALL 3 of the airlines, a JOINT contract and that is how we should look at it. Having said that I think that we could have done better with all three of us at the table negotiating instead of just Colgan. To be honest I am still on the fence about my vote and am open to both sides of the argument. I just feel that our negotiating guys felt pressured to get this thing done ASAP and it shows in some of the areas of the contract. I do not think it is at all a "Industry Leading" contract and I HATE it when alpa guys pound their chest a keep blabbing this stupid term because it is in no way 'industry leading'. Industry average? Sure I'll buy that, just not leading.

I am not trying to one up you, or degrade what you are saying. But on the internet, replies can come off poorly.

First, I am assuming that you work for Colgan. Murph and myself has been around for a good 12-13 years apiece. Let me address a few of your points.

If this was a Colgan only contract, it would be an absolutely amazing piece of work for a carrier to negotiate a contract like this for the first time. Your negotiating team would be Gods of tactics if they were to negotiate what this TA holds for your first contract.

ALPA is calling this industry leading because they are comparing this contract in whole to any other regional's contract in whole. So give me another regional's contract in whole that you think beats our TA. Don't pick and choose between all regionals contract to compare with our TA.

And third, if we did not get one list, one contract, Colgan would of been demolished in any sort of intergration with Mesaba for a multiple of reasons. Just like Mesaba guys going over to Pinnacle would of been demolished following the Jets to Pinnacle. I think this fact needs to be weighed in on your decision.

 

[dcfu69]

You bring up valid points about the seniority integration if we were separate. Not being a smarta$$ but how would Colgan guys get 'demolished' in a merger with XJ if it was not a one contract one list situation? I know your pilot group has senior pilots like yourself but would it not be a relative SLI? We are both ALPA carriers. Are you saying it would be DOH or something along those lines?

 

[SEVEN]

You bring up valid points about the seniority integration if we were separate. Not being a smarta$$ but how would Colgan guys get 'demolished' in a merger with XJ if it was not a one contract one list situation? I know your pilot group has senior pilots like yourself but would it not be a relative SLI? We are both ALPA carriers. Are you saying it would be DOH or something along those lines?

This SLI will mot likely go to arbitration. He is the same guy that handled the NWA/DAL list. With that being said, we have a pretty good idea how this will play out from his recent list integration. Using the ALPA merger policy, it will most likely be DOH with some Relative seniority formula blended in. With that, there will be certain fences in place temporarily to protect aircraft seat and position. If ( and most likely when) this formula/list is played out, the Colgan guys/gals will most likely end up very near the bottom of their particular position. Of course this is just my opinion based on the arbitrator's last integration method.

 

[dcfu69]

As long as fences are put in with appropriate terms I don't have that much of a problem with a blended DOH/relative sli. However, from what I have heard from my union reps, there has been no mention of fences... and that bothers me. I think as long as guys can keep their seat there won't be too much of a bloodbath, especially with fences put in place.

What do you think the time frame for the fences will be?? 2-3 yrs? less/more? will be CR9 only or CR9 and Q400? I know at Colgan the average DOH for CA is mid 2005 and FO is 2008 DOH (which will soon be 09-10 DOH with all the upgrades going on here). Like I said before, I am still on the fence with the contract (leaning towards yes) but I am waaay more concerned with how this SLI is going to work out, obviously.

 

[DoinTime]

This SLI will mot likely go to arbitration. He is the same guy that handled the NWA/DAL list. With that being said, we have a pretty good idea how this will play out from his recent list integration. Using the ALPA merger policy, it will most likely be DOH with some Relative seniority formula blended in. With that, there will be certain fences in place temporarily to protect aircraft seat and position. If ( and most likely when) this formula/list is played out, the Colgan guys/gals will most likely end up very near the bottom of their particular position. Of course this is just my opinion based on the arbitrator's last integration method.

This arbitrator was one of three arbitrators on a panel in the NW/DL integration and from what I can tell, the panel's decision was not where near as simple as what you claim. I wouldn't be so quick to claim that any methodology is Bloch's personal prerogative. Furthermore, there was very little deviation from relative seniority through the vast majority of that list.

 

[RJLoser]

The Q will not be fenced. 9E and XJ will pillage it's village!

 

[Simon Says]

The Q will not be fenced. 9E and XJ will pillage it's village!

I disagree. I would bet the Q-400 CA position will be fenced, along with CRJ-900 CA. Although I did like the phrase "pillage its village"

Hey, loser, didn't you guys have preliminary SLI between you and Colgan when Pinnacle bought Colgan a few years back. If so, what were those details?