9E t a

[Stifler's Mom]

I wager 1000 dollars that this TA will pass. Someone take me up on it. I'll put the cash up

No taker here.

I hope I am proven wrong, but I am not holding my breath on this vote.

 

[1.3XVso]

I'll be shocked if this TA passes. Unless I'm meeting alot of Bill Clinton (i.e. disingenuous) types who say one thing while planning to do another, I've yet to meet a yes vote. DTW is very militant and the guys I know in MEM are pretty fired up.

As I've been saying for years, this management team is the TALIBAN. As such, they only respect one thing: the THREAT of the use of force. This isn't personal, it's about principle. We are looking at a contract in 2009 that is WORSE than the contract Mesaba was offered in 2003. We don't even have a minimum guarantee or any kind of rig in this lousy excuse for a contract. What a freaken joke!

The trips are getting worse with each passing month. When a guy bidding 26 out of 200 gets a 3 day trip worth 14 hours from pref bid and then a cancellation reduces it down to 12 hours credit, what does that say?

It says to me "Burn baby burn, heat 'em up on landing and do them no favors, show them no mercy!"

cokie is a Hilary supporter..

 

[PCL_128]

cokie is a Hilary supporter..

Careful, you'll make his head explode.

 

[Top Gum]

Most say they are voting no but I know a few that will vote yes on this turd. They are unsure of what will happen if they vote no and they would rather be certain of having a pathetically toxic job than none at all. It's sad but true.

 

[CoATP]

It's 50-50 tossup on the TA. DTW-No, ATL-Yes, MEM/MSP ?? If it does pass yo ucan be usre in 6 month anyone you ask will have voted against it.

 

[1.3XVso]

It's 50-50 tossup on the TA. DTW-No, ATL-Yes, MEM/MSP ?? If it does pass yo ucan be usre in 6 month anyone you ask will have voted against it.

Let me help you out

DTW - no
MEM - Yes
ATL- yes
MSP- YEAH

SAD BUT TRUE.. I voted NO.

 

[20sx]

DTW is the biggest base, I believe. That's a lot of pilot's to weigh the total vote toward NO.

BTW, mark me down for a NO vote also.

 

[Grinder10]

If MEM does pass it will be in due large part to the senior lifers.

 

[snap145]

If MEM does pass it will be in due large part to the senior lifers.

This is probably going to be the loser for us in the long run...the straw that breaks the camels back if you will...I would be willing to bet 90 to 95% of all DTW pilot voted NO...including myself...but being the biggest base does not cover enough ground to take it down... ATL and MEM alone are enough to pass it at 51% with yes votes....24 more hours fellas...hold your breath...its crunch time

 

[WTF-Over]

How come PCL was never released into self help?

 

[Top Gum]

The seniors at MEM will be a yes because they have already given in to the fact that there is no future in store for them. They are captured by the numbconna pky spell and are perfectly happy being on the bottom of the bucket with no desire or capability of ever improving their lifestyle.

The juniors at MEM will vote yes because they desire to be senior like their heroes. This way they can have their shot at eternal numbness without having to worry about being able to make the note on that freaking deer camp trailer.

Did you hear the joke about the pcl pilot that got a 15k singing bonus? When asked what he planned to do with it he replied, “I’ll probably just keep flying until I run out of money”.

 

[i fly boxes]

DTW might fail like 90% to 10 %

 

[samballs]

How come PCL was never released into self help?

Because they wouldn't know how to help themselves

 

[dondk]

How come PCL was never released into self help?

Because they never really hit a brick wall at the table. Each time it looked like they did, the company gave a bit to keep the almost 5 years of negotiating to continue.

 

[CoATP]

I think that is called "out-negotiated."

 

[20sx]

Nice new avatar, Dondk!

 

[WildBlue]

The seniors at MEM will be a yes because they have already given in to the fact that there is no future in store for them. They are captured by the numbconna pky spell and are perfectly happy being on the bottom of the bucket with no desire or capability of ever improving their lifestyle.

The juniors at MEM will vote yes because they desire to be senior like their heroes. This way they can have their shot at eternal numbness without having to worry about being able to make the note on that freaking deer camp trailer.

Did you hear the joke about the pcl pilot that got a 15k singing bonus? When asked what he planned to do with it he replied, “I’ll probably just keep flying until I run out of money”.

What a crock! The seniors in Memphis make a good living, can bid for max cash and still have 16 days off or go for min credit and get 19-20 days off. Same is true for anyone senior in ATL or DTW. The 15 year guys in ATL and MEM don't get much out of this deal because their is not much more they need. Improving their lifestyle???? You are blind. Many of the MOST senior guys were flying Saabs for $40k/yr and 14 days off not 8 years ago. Not interested in improving their lifestyles???? If any of those guys had left 6 years ago to improve their lifestyle, most would be furloughed from wherever they went, unless they moved across the street. Your comments about the "deer camp trailer" tells me that you simply lump 100 guys into one bucket and you don't really know any of these people. I guess the most senior guys in Minnie, DTW or ATL are all sitting around in their smoking jackets discussing the subtleties of F. Scott Fitzgerald.

 

[Top Gum]

Hey wildblue, sorry if I hit a nerve with you. If it makes you feel any better you are somewhat correct. The seniors do make a good living and get 18 days off. They are also scared to death to call in sick. Trust me, I’ve flown with the sick bastards. Their retirement sucks. Their family can hardly fly anymore. They can’t count on having any of their scheduled days off because of jr manning and so forth. I know it could be worse but there is good room for improvement. They have basically made chicken salad out of what used to be chicken sh!!t. They voted yes because they’re comfortably numb and the company knew it!

My comment about the trailer wasn’t directed toward any senior person anyway. It was directed toward less senior pilots that have never made any money before and are strapped down in debt for the first time in their life. The debt could be from anything. A freaking deer camp trailer, 150k from flight school or whatever. These types voted yes because they were strapped and the company knew it.

It was the poor FO’s that are on food stamps and the junior CA’s that sit ready reserve all day. They are the ones that stood up and voted no. The company didn’t expect that! Way to go guys!

 

[WildBlue]

Don't be so sure about all the senior captains. A number of these voted no because of 401k, vac slide and some other issues. Unfortunatly we will never see a demographic on who voted what. About all we will see is a base by base comparison.

 

[dondk]

Hey wildblue, sorry if I hit a nerve with you. If it makes you feel any better you are somewhat correct. The seniors do make a good living and get 18 days off. They are also scared to death to call in sick. Trust me, I’ve flown with the sick bastards. Their retirement sucks. Their family can hardly fly anymore. They can’t count on having any of their scheduled days off because of jr manning and so forth. I know it could be worse but there is good room for improvement. They have basically made chicken salad out of what used to be chicken sh!!t. They voted yes because they’re comfortably numb and the company knew it!

My comment about the trailer wasn’t directed toward any senior person anyway. It was directed toward less senior pilots that have never made any money before and are strapped down in debt for the first time in their life. The debt could be from anything. A freaking deer camp trailer, 150k from flight school or whatever. These types voted yes because they were strapped and the company knew it.

It was the poor FO’s that are on food stamps and the junior CA’s that sit ready reserve all day. They are the ones that stood up and voted no. The company didn’t expect that! Way to go guys!

You got most of it to be honest. From both sides, there are 4 distinct groups. A group of pilots that have sugar momma's or daddy's or some sweet gig on the side. Regardless, they are going to survive as long as the contract did not impact their QOL too much. They were a solid YES vote and both sides knew it.

The next group is generally CA's and super junior FO's, they are living well beyond their means, paycheck to paycheck. They don't call in sick because they can't afford it. This is generally the same group that bid over guarantee or bid guarantee then pick up like crazy. Both sides now this larger group exists. They also know this group will never strike.

the next group the company counted on, this group is comprised of the guys that were hired at 300 hours. This group has way too much invested and stand to lose the largest if growth stops, furloughs, displacements and so on. This group most believed would also not strike and counted on just following the crowd.

the last group is the most volatile group, mixed risk. Wants the QOL now and later, they are furlough proof, displacement proof. No one knows how they would vote or strike.

Over the years both sides basically commented on these 4 groups.