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fowingman

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 23, 2006
Posts
227
what's the t.a look like ? any info yet? i've read so much junk on here but no solid info on what's actually in the t.o
 
But all of the idiots over there will be falling all over each other, blinded by a signing bonus and vote it in...just like they did at ASA. Shameful really...
 
at best borderline average for a company that demands nothing less than the
best.

slap in the face? only if the pilots vote YES. The pilots have the choice to be slapped or not.
 
The signing bonus distribution, which was decided by mainly senior captains in the MEC, is mainly a benefit for the senior guys. It will be based off W2's, so a reserve or CDO FO making $18k versus an ATL CA or checkairman making $80k will have their bonus divided accordingly.
 
I don't think many want to vote yes for this, but there is a fear that if not, then the lack of scope will really bite us. In other words, the Mesa Freedom angle is alive and well. That more than anything will be responsible if this passes.
 
asayankee said:
But all of the idiots over there will be falling all over each other, blinded by a signing bonus and vote it in...just like they did at ASA. Shameful really...
Click to expand...

At ASA? I thought we did pretty good. Aren't we at or near the top of the regional scale on most sections? I for one have more days off, a commuter clause, make more money than I did under the old contract, a better match to my 401k, 100% DH pay, and got a pretty good signing bonus! Not to mention the other imrovements to the scheduling section.

Pretty good if you ask me.
 
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ASAFOE120 said:
At ASA? I thought we did pretty good. Aren't we at or near the top of the regional scale on most sections? I for one have more days off, a commuter clause, make more money than I did under the old contract, a better match to my 401k, 100% DH pay, and got a pretty good signing bonus! Not to mention the other imrovements to the scheduling section.

Pretty good if you ask me.
Click to expand...

While I agree with you we got a lot of improvements, there are many glaring holes in our current contract. The reserve section has been an absolute mess..
 
asayankee said:
While I agree with you we got a lot of improvements, there are many glaring holes in our current contract. The reserve section has been an absolute mess..
Click to expand...

It is a mess, but is far better than that which came before it.
 
asayankee said:
While I agree with you we got a lot of improvements, there are many glaring holes in our current contract. The reserve section has been an absolute mess..
Click to expand...


An absolute mess? No, not really. I'm guessing you weren't here before, under the old contract and the absolute mess that that was.
 
Data said:
An absolute mess? No, not really. I'm guessing you weren't here before, under the old contract and the absolute mess that that was.
Click to expand...

what reserve section in the old contract? you mean the handful of words that basically states you are CS beotch 24/7/365.

the new language is an improvement, now you are their beotch only 20-21 days a month (can't go below min days off)
 
Like ASA, you treat them like crap for so long, then when a POS carrot is hung infront of their face, they're willing to sign for it. ALPA is doing their fear tatics of "Sign it or it could be worse" just like they did the Comair guys.
 
Data said:
An absolute mess? No, not really. I'm guessing you weren't here before, under the old contract and the absolute mess that that was.
Click to expand...

Yes I was here under the old contract with the old reserve "rules" and in many ways the new contract is better, but also worse. In typical ASA fashion, one set of abuses has been traded for another. We close one set of loopholes and they simply open others. Business as usual unfortunately. The companies refusal to work with us on the red-arrow debacle simply indicates that the Brad Holt "honeymoon" is over.
 
asayankee said:
The companies refusal to work with us on the red-arrow debacle simply indicates that the Brad Holt "honeymoon" is over.
Click to expand...

Oh really? You mean like how the union has worked with the company on PBS? Every single cent PBS would have the company, ALPA demanded it and a significant amount more in concessions. It seems more to me that ALPA wants to flex its muscle and the company shoved back.
 
dondk said:
what reserve section in the old contract? you mean the handful of words that basically states you are CS beotch 24/7/365.

the new language is an improvement, now you are their beotch only 20-21 days a month (can't go below min days off)
Click to expand...

Life will be much worse for me under the new contract. I have almost never been extended into a day off, but the Ready Reserve rules and being put back on reserve for 12 hours after finishing a trip will be devastating.

I'll keep the old contract thank you.
 
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Tarzan said:
Oh really? You mean like how the union has worked with the company on PBS? Every single cent PBS would have the company, ALPA demanded it and a significant amount more in concessions. It seems more to me that ALPA wants to flex its muscle and the company shoved back.
Click to expand...

Why should we give them millions of dollars in concessions per year for nothing in return? Why should I give them my time off? Why should I give up my scheduling flexibility? No other airlines have done that (with the exception of non-union Skywest). We're not asking for "everything" as you say....but we should get something!

Since you are feeling so generous though, why don't you just send me some of your money while we're at it? We can set up a payment plan where I slowly bleed you and take more and more as the years go by. If it makes you feel better I can also put out a Tuesday newsletter where I cheer the miraculous daily efforts our employees, but then complain about the economy and ask you to work harder for less total compensation. Will that make you happy?
 
asayankee said:
Why should we give them millions of dollars in concessions per year for nothing in return? Why should I give them my time off? Why should I give up my scheduling flexibility? No other airlines have done that (with the exception of non-union Skywest). We're not asking for "everything" as you say....but we should get something!
Click to expand...
No other airlines? We are one of the few without PBS. 9E has it for one. Delta does for another. Last thing I heard, the company was willing to give about half back to the union. Go ask some questions. You may not like what you are hearing because you don't have the facts in the case. When it save the company X amount of dollars and the wants it all plus another million, it defeats the purpose.

Fact is, crunch time is here and the union isn't negotiating in good faith. The Delta MEC can not save your job. They will waste exactly ZERO negotiating capital on us. PBS may be a bitter pill to swallow but it will level the playing field in regards to block hour costs. You can still get your time off and if you learn the system, you can still stretch out your vacation. Straight from one of the guys working the PBS issue, "The only place it is concessionary is on vacation BUT you can still stretch it out if you wanted too." Sounds bad huh?
 
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Tarzan said:
No other airlines? We are one of the few without PBS. 9E has it for one. Delta does for another. Last thing I heard, the company was willing to give about half back to the union. Go ask some questions. You may not like what you are hearing because you don't have the facts in the case. When it save the company X amount of dollars and the wants it all plus another million, it defeats the purpose.

Fact is, crunch time is here and the union isn't negotiating in good faith. The Delta MEC can not save your job. They will waste exactly ZERO negotiating capital on us. PBS may be a bitter pill to swallow but it will level the playing field in regards to block hour costs. You can still get your time off and if you learn the system, you can still stretch out your vacation. Straight from one of the guys working the PBS issue, "The only place it is concessionary is on vacation BUT you can still stretch it out if you wanted too." Sounds bad huh?
Click to expand...

Obviously other airlines have PBS...you're pretty dense if you think that is what I meant. What I said was nobody gave them PBS for nothing. Also, we are not asking for all the savings plus 1 million. Where do you get this crap??? The company can save anywhere from $6-$12 million annually....we are asking for half of the minimum savings or $3 million in credits to offset the extra time at work we will have to do. We're not even asking for "actual" money. Continental even got more than that out of a bankruptcy judge!
 
Come on, this TA has been out for a couple weeks. Can't one of you at least post the bullet points? I mean come on. If it is that bad then a recall should be in order.
 
The initial 50 seat rate is the average of:

Air Wisconsin
American Eagle
ASA
Comair
Express Jet
Mesa
Mesaba
PSA
Republic
Skywest
TSA

The initial 76 seat rates are the average of:

ASA
Comair
Compass
Mesaba
Republic
Skywest

44-59 seat turbojet CA:

57.38
59.68
61.96
64.01
65.94
67.93
69.98
72.10
74.33
76.62
78.83
81.37
83.76
86.24
88.25
89.98
91.68
93.29

FO:
23.11
32.15
35.06
36.83
37.84
38.69
39.47
40.05


60-76 turbojet CA:
61.27
63.10
65.73
67.70
69.39
71.52
73.72
75.91
78.57
81.31
83.78
86.48
89.02
91.77
94.52
97.07
99.55
102.09

FO:
25.73
34.48
36.81
38.33
39.30
40.26
41.25
42.03
42.06
42.08
42.08
42.08
42.08
42.08
43.07
44.03
44.93
45.96
 
be prepared to see history made here by the 9E pilots...remember no ALPA carrier has ever collectivley voted a TA down...time to man up boys...everyone here has been talking the talk..now who is gonna walk the walk????
 
snap145 said:
be prepared to see history made here by the 9E pilots...remember no ALPA carrier has ever collectivley voted a TA down...time to man up boys...everyone here has been talking the talk..now who is gonna walk the walk????
Click to expand...

They won't vote it down. They're affriad to. They just don't have the company setting in the fear factor, but the union is bringing it up the rear as well.
The pilots are being threatened by the union that if they don't vote it in, life will become worse. It's a typical ALPA tactic. And they should be looking out for your best interest, right?
I can just see this being voted through and the headlines of the next ALPA magainze "Pinnacle Pilots Vote in Industry Leading Contract"...while Prater and the cronnies blow smoke up everyones behind.
In the end, the MEC who "negotiated" this industry average TA will never fly under it, because they're too busy on union duty. They forget what it's like to be a line pilot, and they're in bed with management. As all ALPA MEC's are.
So for all the guys who give the SkyWest pilots crap for not voting in ALPO, how does it make you feel that SKW, a non-ALPA carrier who got a PAY RAISE (and dont give me this "riding the coat tails of ASA" BS) while Pinnacle, an ALPO carrier is getting bent over?
Looks like carriers that arent ALPA have a better QOL, treated better by management and have a higher payscale (SWA for example).

In the end, this POS will voted through, and the 9E pilots will begin their excuses "We were backed into a corner" or "It would have been a lot worse".....Just remember how many times you 9E guys gave the other regionals for signing crap contracts. THis is the time to raise the bar....but it's not going to be done by you guys.

PS
I thought since Obama was voted in, this TA was going to be industry leading because you had the NMB in your corner? I guess they're out to lunch on that one.
 
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