9e flashlight

[RJLoser]

Since he's on the 900, that argument is quite flawed.

Deeper meaning here murph.

 

[Raskal]

Not at 9E. No yellow flashlights. They want you to bring your own. Your own headset too.

Ahh, got it.

 

[1.3XVso]

SEVEN,

Sigh.....Bit*ching about a flashlight?! Dude are you really that much of a *************************ING a$$hole?! I forgot you once said that Mesaba was a prestige airline and that Delta would never part from mesaba. I can't wait until I find out who you are. You are going to bump 9E Fo's trying to upgrade and move on with there careers and your here complaining about headsets and flashlights. freaking lifer.

 

[CptMurf]

Deeper meaning here murph.

Agreed, much deeper meaning, as of Dec. XJ won't have any airplanes. But XJ's airplanes always had them. They will have them on Dec 1st too. Now how do we as 9E pilots deal with this new equipment that is not listed in our CFM? See, change. How about the FMS position Xs and white needle/autotune calls that are required? These become quite superfluous when you fly the XJ airplanes with IRSs installed, which is why XJ didn't use/make them. Again, change.

The real question is why we are expected to purchase and lug around headsets and flashlights that are REQUIRED to do our job. If you get a job at Walmart as a cashier, are you required to purchase and lug around your own cash register? Of course not. The idea that 9E pilots have accepted these procedures is hard to digest when you have become accustomed to a company providing the items necessary for you to perform your job. The complaint is valid, doing it on a public forum, somewhat questionable.

 

[RJLoser]

...........

 

[CptMurf]

Good lord murph. You are equating the burden of carrying a flashlight to a downgrade or furlough or a missed upgrade opportunity? I'm going to see my way out of this argument.

Let's see. Your posting in a thread named "9E Flashlights" about "downgrade or furlough or a missed upgrade opportunity." Maybe I should have made 2 posts, but since it was to the same sender, I lumped it together.

To the missed opportunity... Welcome to the industry. We had no control over who was bought or purchased. We had little control over the integration. We are now on a list with fences, that will not be changed. This is our new reality. Time to stop complaining, and move on.

As to the flashlights... Good thing they don't tell me I need to bring my own aircraft. I had both flashlight and headset anyway, I just don't like the idea that I can be violated if my batteries don't meet the equivalency or I leave my headset at home by accident.

 

[RJLoser]

My apologies murph. I took you for a guy that can read between the lines. My point was to button your lip rather than complain about flashlights and.......move on. Again, sorry.

 

[Flyer1015]

Everyone is paying for this merger. I agree, some more than others, but at this point all we can do is accept our individual positions and move on. EVERYONE has felt some pain with this, EVERYONE will experience changes from this. The pain your 4-5 FOs are feeling is no worse than the 4-5 year FOs after 9-11. How about a newhire at TWA? This industry is riddled with these stories. None of us had control over this. And the few that could have pushed it into a more fair integration, pushed that responsibility of on Bloch. In the end, you can make your life more miserable by complaining, or you can accept your newly fellow pilots as equals and move on from this. There are good people, and great pilots that are coming into this combined 9E. Expect changes for the better, don't fight them. There are better ways to do things than has been the status quo of 9E. This does not mean there were not good things at 9E in the past, but there are some areas and issues that could be better managed.

I can't apologize for any injustice you feel due to the ISL, I as most, had no control over it. But realize that everyone in this industry has a stagnation, bankruptcy, or merger story. A 4-5 year FO in 1999 was about halfway to upgrade. The upgrade times will go down again when the majors start hiring, until then make the best of your current situation.

Yes but unlike those cases, you will have movement here out of seniority order. In all your mentioned cases, straight seniority was the golden rule. Now, our seniority really doesn't matter until you look at the conditions/restrictions. The fence (of no 9E pilots on Saab Captains for 5 years) theoretically means in the next five years, you could have a scenario of Colgan pilots being Captains pretty much direct entry while 9E pilots in the 4-5+ yr mark cannot hold Saab Captain. There's a stark difference.

Even on 11-09, I guarantee you will see (Colgan) pilots #2400-2600 holding Captain, even with their quota met, while Pinnacle pilots #1700-2100 are left as FOs.

 

[CptMurf]

Yes but unlike those cases, you will have movement here out of seniority order. In all your mentioned cases, straight seniority was the golden rule. Now, our seniority really doesn't matter until you look at the conditions/restrictions. The fence (of no 9E pilots on Saab Captains for 5 years) theoretically means in the next five years, you could have a scenario of Colgan pilots being Captains pretty much direct entry while 9E pilots in the 4-5+ yr mark cannot hold Saab Captain. There's a stark difference.

Never heard of the "Red Book" "Green Book" have you? Or DALs hailed integration. Both of those are out of seniority order, with fences. In fact Blochs decision, is considered the industry norm. Your on SLI committee even stated that. Everyone knew fences would be apart of any award, the terms and length were the only variables. We would have been better off to actually negotiate our own integration method and thus our own fates. Unfortunately, the negotiations were fill with a lot of ego, and a lack of actually wanting to negotiate.

The only choice now is to stay and accept your new position, or leave. That is an individual choice, and in today's environment takes a lot of luck. The flight decks are destined to be filled with pilots that have conflict over their newfound seniority. The question is... A) Will you blow off the award and just be happy B) Be professional enough to keep it out of the flight deck or C) not tolerate one comment on it and go off on the individual's that points out how it affected him. A or B would be the correct answer, but some have already publicly posted that they choose option C.

 

[CptMurf]

My apologies murph. I took you for a guy that can read between the lines. My point was to button your lip rather than complain about flashlights and.......move on. Again, sorry.

Oh, I can read between the lines. And I have moved on. I hold NO ill will, and I am looking forward to flying with the 9E guys, and seeing more former XJ guys in black and gold. But I will retain the right to speak openly, although I try to voice my concerns to those that can actually affect change, not just whining on a public forum. My complaint was not with flashlights at all, although I do see Sevens point here.

 

[RJLoser]

Deleted....

 

[bri5150]

Seven is not so much complaining about the flashlight, but complaining about the company's philosophy in which the flashlight is a small part. If Pinnacle was the Southwest of the regionals, I am pretty sure he wouldn't have said anything about the flashlight.

 

[SEVEN]

Seven is not so much complaining about the flashlight, but complaining about the company's philosophy in which the flashlight is a small part. If Pinnacle was the Southwest of the regionals, I am pretty sure he wouldn't have said anything about the flashlight.

It's useless to attempt to speak logically to that guy...I'm quite sure he doesn't even know what the term "philosophy" means.

 

[BuckMurdock1]

Gotta love Pinchanickel..been several yrs since I was there, but I also recall they had some d*ckhead check airman who would actually ask pilots how many times the emer flashlight's red status light illuminated per minute on recurrent line checks (you know; when checking pilot is supposed to just sit there and observe)..
...Simply the best!... (and PLEASE tell me that little motto left with PT)

 

[DoinTime]

The real question is why we are expected to purchase and lug around headsets and flashlights that are REQUIRED to do our job. If you get a job at Walmart as a cashier, are you required to purchase and lug around your own cash register? Of course not. The idea that 9E pilots have accepted these procedures is hard to digest when you have become accustomed to a company providing the items necessary for you to perform your job. The complaint is valid, doing it on a public forum, somewhat questionable.

The vast majority of tradesmen in this country (from auto mechanics to pilots) need to bring thier own tools to perform the basic functions of thier jobs. Every pilot needs a headset, flashlight, flightbag, luggage, etc. To perform the core functions of a pilot's job so be prepared to provide and maintain them yourself.

If you think it's deplorable that pinnacle makes you provide these things when Mesaba did not, you need to shake that crooked finger at almost every other airline in this country too. I'm sorry Mesaba management treated you like royalty, that treatment just ended.

 

[dustrpilot]

What did Mesaba pilots use for pre/post flights in the dark?

 

[avrorj-85]

What did Mesaba pilots use for pre/post flights in the dark?

XJ airplanes are furnished with flashlights.

 

[CptMurf]

The vast majority of tradesmen in this country (from auto mechanics to pilots) need to bring thier own tools to perform the basic functions of thier jobs. Every pilot needs a headset, flashlight, flightbag, luggage, etc. To perform the core functions of a pilot's job so be prepared to provide and maintain them yourself.

If you think it's deplorable that pinnacle makes you provide these things when Mesaba did not, you need to shake that crooked finger at almost every other airline in this country too. I'm sorry Mesaba management treated you like royalty, that treatment just ended.

From Wikipedia...

A tradesman is a skilled manual worker in a particular trade or craft. Economically and socially, a tradesman's status is considered between a laborer and a professional, with a high degree of both practical and theoretical knowledge of their trade. In cultures where professional careers are highly prized there can be a shortage of skilled manual workers, leading to lucrative niche markets in the trades.

I consider myself a professional. Mesaba management treated me like one. So do other respected airlines, such as SWA which bought every pilot on the property Telex 850s. Luggage is entirely different, it is not needed to perform the job. It is however needed to move my company issued manuals and uniforms.

I have no beef with the requirement. I brought my own headset, even when my company supplied one. Our contract does not state anything about either, and therefore the requirement is valid an accepted. But it is an valid issue, that should be visited in future negotiations.

 

[dustrpilot]

XJ airplanes are furnished with flashlights.

Hmm, cool. Not the emergency flashlights on the cb panel, but sure nuff no chit flashlights?

 

[CptMurf]

Hmm, cool. Not the emergency flashlights on the cb panel, but sure nuff no chit flashlights?

2 strapped to aircraft, and 2 additional flashlights on flightdeck. 4 total. Another in galley for the FAs preflight. Any of these could be missing without an MEL, but we wrote them up to get replaced or new batteries.

 

[CptMurf]

This thread baffles me... A minuscule point was raised that flashlights and headsets were required, and not furnished as it was at another merging airline. Instead of stating, "Really, they furnished them? We need that here!", we have statements like "I'm sorry you were treated like royalty, but not anymore" and "button your lip". You complain about the company, yet you defend it's actions. You would be better served to latch onto the small points as they're raised by the transferring pilots, stand behind them, and get them instituted here.

 

[xjlifer]

I am getting fuzzy on the exact dates so some might be off just a tad.
In 1988 I got hired by Midway Connection flying the DO-228. Funny little airplane...but Midway Connection had a flow thru agreement with mainline Midway Airlines. Upgrades were fast and most Captains I flew with were able to get pic time and either move up or move on within 2 years. Midway then bought the remains of the hub operations from eastern airlines in 1989 and a little thing called the first gulf war happened. Both events did not help my fast upgrade much. As a matter of fact I was furloughed in 1989. I applied to tons of airlines but most regional's at the time had adopted pay for training. So I was out of aviation for awhile before I got hired by XJ in 1993.

At Xj I have seen looong reserve years....watched 2 more flow thru agreements go by the way side...(yes I passed on the one to NWA) Flown with great people and some not so great. The point of this boring story is...As Capt. Murpf states so well you have to adapt because if you don't then this is not the industry for you.

Ask any TWA-Eastern-PanAm-Midwest express-Midway and many more airline pilot's if it is a "Fair" industry.

It is what it is...smile be nice to those you work with it really will make your day better.

 

[bri5150]

Sorry for the necro post, but I just found this in our JCBA when I was looking for something else.

26.A.1 : A Pilot will not be required to pay for the use of any equipment necessary for training or equipment used in any airline operations (e.g., maps, en route charts, approach plates, ear plugs, alcohol wipes, etc.) with the exception of headsets.

Looks like 9E should be providing flashlights to me. We have bigger battles at this point, but why not put this on the pile?

 

[urflyingme?!]

Mounted flashlights in the RJ don't turn off once you pull them. Good luck with that. OH MY GOD I NEED A FLASHLIGHT WAAAH. You need pants, a belt, socks, underwear, shirt, tie, suitcase and chart case too. They don;t issue toothbrush or razor either.

 

[bri5150]

Mounted flashlights in the RJ don't turn off once you pull them. Good luck with that. OH MY GOD I NEED A FLASHLIGHT WAAAH. You need pants, a belt, socks, underwear, shirt, tie, suitcase and chart case too. They don;t issue toothbrush or razor either.

You're right. It's probably best to let the company walk all over the contract on the little things.

 

[CptMurf]

Bri's right on this one. If its in the contract, it's up to each of us to know it, and enforce it. Anything that we let mgmt. get away with is wasted money, because your negotiation capital (read: wages) were traded to gain these items (as small as they seem). Flashlights may not seem like much to those that have always had to supply them, but to those that haven't, it's just one more punch in the gut. If you want to bring and carry your own, so be it, but demand that the contract be followed and enforced. Shaming your coworkers over it just divides us further.

 

[RJLoser]

XJ guys are right. Contract says flashlight. That's what we get. I'd rather see the pilot group demand suitable hotels. Soooo tired of crappy hotels.

 

[WMUSIGPI]

XJ guys are right. Contract says flashlight. That's what we get. I'd rather see the pilot group demand suitable hotels. Soooo tired of crappy hotels.

Too many guys get chubbies over a free stale bagel and coffee to want to stay somewhere nice and give up the free "breakfast".

 

[Flyer1015]

You're more likely to get a fleshlight from Pinnacle than a flashlight to do your walkaround. It ain't gonna happen!

 

[bri5150]

No wonder they trash the contract and don't care about it. Nobody tries to enforce it. They just say "Meh, it's Pinnacle. It won't get done" and don't challenge it. As long as someone within ALPA does something, we will get flashlights or an LOA. I am sure it is low on the priority list right now, but it seems pretty cut and dry. Why is everyone so worked up about hotel language in the contract? The company will do what they want anyways, right?