9E, 9L, XJ JCBA Deadline Extension

[i fly boxes]

Why are they calling it a deadline. Like what, does the airline go out of business if time elapsed? That wouldnt be the worst thing i guess.

 

[Flyer1015]

You guys definitely need to grow a pair. The sooner you get some hair on your peaches the quicker this will be resolved. You're not giving the company any reason to do anything. They're not going to do it out of the kindness of their heart.

55% of the current pilot group is pay-to-play. They aren't willing to stand up against management. Most are simply thankful to be employed and definitely don't want to rock the boat, in fact, for some, this job is their only hope. Gulfstream loans, houses, cars, etc, will make sure they come to work every day and continue to work under the 1999 CBA.

 

[Smarta$$]

Hahaha.

They need a few more weeks? Really?

How about 5 years? You've got to be kidding me.

I hate to say I told you so, but the company is gonna keep on stringing the union along and the union WILL LET THEM.

Better leadership is needed. Where are the Mesaba militants? Bring em on.

There is NO Mesaba militants. Hence my tag quote below. It is not the leadership that is the primary problem, it is the RANK AND FILE of Pinnacle. Never EVER have I met such a group of PU$$IES in my life. They will take ANY and ALL abuse and be taken advantage of OVER and OVER and OVER, and do nothing. Makes me sick.

 

[MACH-TUCK]

There is NO Mesaba militants. Hence my tag quote below. It is not the leadership that is the primary problem, it is the RANK AND FILE of Pinnacle. Never EVER have I met such a group of PU$$IES in my life. They will take ANY and ALL abuse and be taken advantage of OVER and OVER and OVER, and do nothing. Makes me sick.

I see you write this at least once a day, getting sick of it yet??? We both know nothing is ever going to change...

 

[CptMurf]

The JCBA is not section 6 negotiations. Which is why the 9E MEC email states that is the JCBA falls through, that you would return to independent negotiations. I know it feels the same to you, and I understand why you are saying it feels like the XJ guys are not behind you, but you need to understand the difference in these negotiations vs the one you have been in for 6 years. The JCBA negotiations have been very productive, and the negotiators are hopeful for a conclusion soon after negotiations resume. Several sections have been improved over what 9E was unable to attain in the TA. The XJ guys are interested in attaining a contract that is good for all of us, and it will be better than what you saw in the TA. It is not time to be militant, which is why you don't see militant XJ folks. There is a time and place, we're not there yet. Give the negotiators time.

 

[Smarta$$]

I see you write this at least once a day, getting sick of it yet??? We both know nothing is ever going to change...

Yes, very sick of it. I usually write it in response to someone in context. In never changed at ASA/NWA... until... it finally did.

 

[CptMurf]

In never changed at ASA/NWA... until... it finally did.

I spent about 20 minutes Googling some type of an organized NWA slowdown or Chaos.... The only thing I found was for some mechanics in '98 and the FA's Chaos. I don't remember them doing anything either. You have a backstory to this, or preferably a link?

I admit it worked at ASA, they got the first descent contract in a post 9-11 enviornment. But again this was section 6 negotiations, you ended those about 47 days ago when our unions agreed to negotiate a JCBA. If the JCBA fails, you will go back to the NMB where you were in the process. This however is a NEW negotiation, with it's own timeline.

This quote reads a lot like "It will be done when it's done."

 

[Smarta$$]

I spent about 20 minutes Googling some type of an organized NWA slowdown or Chaos.... The only thing I found was for some mechanics in '98 and the FA's Chaos. I don't remember them doing anything either. You have a backstory to this, or preferably a link?

I admit it worked at ASA, they got the first descent contract in a post 9-11 enviornment. But again this was section 6 negotiations, you ended those about 47 days ago when our unions agreed to negotiate a JCBA. If the JCBA fails, you will go back to the NMB where you were in the process. This however is a NEW negotiation, with it's own timeline.

This quote reads a lot like "It will be done when it's done."

NWA I am referring to is the post BK contract where the narrow body NWA pilots lost block or better and had some other contract provisions they did not like. What insued shortly after was a slow taxi/sick call/MX write up campaign that got them improvements to their BK contract in short time. I am sorry you don't remember the slow taxing DC9s and A320s from 3-4 years ago. But it DID happen and it DID work like a charm, and they WERE NOT in section 6.

This not being section 6 is irrelevant. There is nothing in section 6 that allows work-to-rule actions anyway. If the company feels tremendous operational pressure during these JCBA negotiations, they can also assume that they will feel as much or more pressure if we go back to our section 6 negotiations which is the plan if this falls apart. Operational pressure now will be a shot across the bow for these AND subsequent section 6 negotiations (should they be necessary). Its negotiations just the same. We are not asking for anything earth shattering just because you guys are here. This is still 6 years for us, and it will always be 6 years for US no matter what type of negotiations you call it. Our negotiators already have determined what contract adjustments are needed to accommodate the 3 airlines. Those specific requirements have been given to company management. They simply need to find common ground on our requirements. They are not reinventing the wheel here. While they MAY have been moving in our direction in the final few days, they WASTED considerable amount of time playing games.

We got to 6 years for specific reasons, and so far, we are repeating those same actions/in-actions.

You, represent and advocate those same actions/in-actions.

 

[CptMurf]

Unable to substantiate one way or the other... I will accept your story. I probably did not notice any slow taxi, because I taxi that way myself. A "Brisk Walk", not 2 kts. under v1 as some seem to.

The fact that were not in section 6 has everything to do with it. See, I have a contract. Its good for about 2 more years. I am bound to it, and as my union states at the end every email, "Fly the Contract." They have not called for work actions, and have stated in the past that if an individual is caught in an individual "work action" the union will not be able to protect them. We followed these rules while negotiating our '04 and BK agreements, and were able to attain a good contract. That should not be read that we are scared to use them, or wouldn't use them, it just means that we realize it should be a rational, coordinated effort, called for and supported by ALL union members.

You on the other hand do not have a contract. Your are bound under the RLA to continue operating by the previous contract. But when we entered into negotiations of the JCBA our collective unions and the company, stated and recognized that we would negotiate a JCBA with terms no less favorable than our current terms. For 9E the TA was accepted as the current terms. At that point, although you have suffered and worked towards a passable TA for 6 years, those negotiations were paused until the JCBA was signed or abandoned.

The negotiations at this point should be just merging the best of all 3 labor groups current contracts into a JCBA, this is necessary so that no one labor group has to give up any negotiated contract items. This is how the DAL/NWA worked also, and what raised the pay for NWA and workrules for DAL. I have talked to my reps and negotiators. I understand that mgmt. has resisted in some areas, but overall there is and has been movement in all areas. And they seem confident a unified JCBA can be negotiated with this mgmt. team, but that deadlines will not push them into a subpar contract.

If you feel so strongly that we are all weak and a "work action" is needed, then go do it. Go slow it all down by yourself. See if that attains your goal. I'll stay here with the rest of the pilot group and work as a team member for the greater good.

 

[xjhawk]

The JCBA is not section 6 negotiations. Which is why the 9E MEC email states that is the JCBA falls through, that you would return to independent negotiations. I know it feels the same to you, and I understand why you are saying it feels like the XJ guys are not behind you, but you need to understand the difference in these negotiations vs the one you have been in for 6 years. The JCBA negotiations have been very productive, and the negotiators are hopeful for a conclusion soon after negotiations resume. Several sections have been improved over what 9E was unable to attain in the TA. The XJ guys are interested in attaining a contract that is good for all of us, and it will be better than what you saw in the TA. It is not time to be militant, which is why you don't see militant XJ folks. There is a time and place, we're not there yet. Give the negotiators time.

Well said.