9E, 9L, XJ JCBA Deadline Extension

[GRAAB HIRBOUBI]

There is NO Mesaba militants. Hence my tag quote below. It is not the leadership that is the primary problem, it is the RANK AND FILE of Pinnacle. Never EVER have I met such a group of PU$$IES in my life. They will take ANY and ALL abuse and be taken advantage of OVER and OVER and OVER, and do nothing. Makes me sick.

I am curious what EXACTLY you would like us to do? Call in sick. Write everything up. Drop the brake 1 minute late. Wow that is really cutting edge. I wonder what you're negotiations would have be like had you not done these things. 6 years...Man, it really helped.

You really need to be careful. The American Airlines union was nearly gutted when they they lost the case about the illegal work action.
Now I choose NOT to use Pinnacle's past as an example of what we Mesaba people should do for anything. I trust our union guys and when my MEC tells me to do something THEN I will act.

 

[Smarta$$]

Staggering ignorance.

 

[GRAAB HIRBOUBI]

Staggering ignorance.

I didn't attack you. Say what you think. I don't have an answer. What can we XJ people do that the 9E people haven't done for themselves over the past 6 years that would really make a difference?

Rollover. We were in bankruptcy. We had a gun to our heads. We held a pretty tight line. We didn't get good things in the deal, we didn't reverse injustices of the past. A lot of what we agreed to was a gamble. I think we won in the deal and in 14 days I will get a 4% raise because of it.

Staggering ignorance. Well OK. Again I ask you sincerely what are we supposed to do? Don't just point fingers and call people names. I hate it when people complain but never step up to the plate and become involved with the Union. I can't believe the 9E guys have capitulated to a point that they would vote in any old piece of tripe just to get a little cash.

I remember thinking during my new hire days that I was going to push for de-certifying the union at Mesaba. But I educated myself and during the bankruptcy I grew a STAGGERING amount of respect for our MEC and Negotiating Committee. Now I don't personally like MN. But I will support him and I can sleep at night knowing while not perfect my vote got our current / bankruptcy LOA in place.

I am not entirely sure that DC-9 guys practically taxiing backwards had much to do with their raises. That would most likely have been an illegal work action should NWA pursue the matter. That would have been dumb.

So I am sitting here waiting for your intelligent response. I know my union people read these posts, just as the management does. So again what do you want us to do?

 

[Mel Sharples]

Staggering ignorance.

So let me get this straight...

You are mad because your own pilots haven't stood up and become militant after 6 years of failed negotiations?

You are mad at XJ pilots because we haven't started some sort of CHAOS campaign because a company imposed deadline passed without a JCBA?

You are mad because the JNC has agreed to extend the deadline because they are making a lot of progress towards getting a JCBA?

Sounds to me like you are mad at everyone else because you aren't happy with your station in life. As someone else said, if you want to write it up/be late/whatever, don't let me stop you. You just can't expect everyone else to do the same when we haven't hit Defcon-4 yet.

Somehow I don't think you will end up happy out of this no matter what happens. In any event, the Pinnacle pilots have had a say in this all along. Getting mad at the XJ pilots for allegedly not being militant because your own brothers won't be is pretty narrow minded.

I think the XJ group's negotiating style and results speak for themselves. Just point your finger in anger at the right group of people.

 

[RJLoser]

You guys/gals will sooner or later understand.

 

[GRAAB HIRBOUBI]

I don't get it. If you understand so much better and there are things to do - how come 9E guys haven't secured a new contract?

I am not accusing. I mean get released, go on strike, and we will stop flying. What more can you do than fly the contract. If you're sick - call in. FAA requires it. Doesn't matter how many sick calls you have. If it breaks write it up. Fatigued call it. How is this unusual?

When we switch to 9e officially that's how I will run my aircraft. If the company fires me, then I call the union, then the FAA.

So you guys are saying that 9E guys are flying broken airplanes, sick, and fatigued? Maybe you're right, there is a problem. I am just not sure I can fix your issue. But I know that most pilots at XJ have no problem doing any of this.

 

[xjlifer]

I remember now....it was "what about Bob"

 

[xjgearbtch]

Its so simple fly the contract that's it. The union isn't asking for You to conduct job actions. You are screwing with their negotiating power by doing so. If this goes into arbitration. The company will cry we can't make a profit margin with the current contract the proposed will be even worse. Just fly the contract keep your anger issues at home. We don't need that in the cockpit. Let the union do their job representing you. They can do it much better then you and you self imposed Chaos.

 

[SEVEN]

For the SmartA$$

From the information provided at the MEM LEC meeting last night, things look quite positive. When everything is done it looks like we'll have a decent contract, but they were pretty clear that this won't be Christmas for us like it will be for the other two groups, especially Colgan.

Some topics discussed:
- 11 Days off
- 9E vacation slide
- XJ short-term/long-term disability
- XJ 401k
- 9E Health Insurance, pilot contribution at %25
- 75% Deadhead pay
- 9E-like PBS
- XJ type post-amendable % raises
- 5 year duration
- 5 hour/day for training days
- Being able to go three days below min days off (a compromise)
- Being able to pick up open time on vacation
- Keeping min day
- Leg guarantee in place of trip guarantee
- Pay rates
- Keeping sim training/checking/LCAs in-house, letting ground training be done by contractors
- Biddable dual-qual reserve only lines w/extra days off

Some of the above has been TAed, and some is still on the table. Seniority List Integration was also discussed, but since this cannot occur until 29 days AFTER a TA is reached there really isn't much to talk about.

 

[AiRegency]

Hey Se7en, could you clarify these two points you just made:

-Being able to go three days below min days off (a compromise)
-Keeping min day

I'm hoping this means that the company cannot force you to go below min days but that at the pilots discretion you could choose to. Is that correct?

 

[CptMurf]

Hey Se7en, could you clarify these two points you just made:

-Being able to go three days below min days off (a compromise)
-Keeping min day

I'm hoping this means that the company cannot force you to go below min days but that at the pilots discretion you could choose to. Is that correct?

-Being able to go three days below min days off (a compromise)
XJ has a min of 11 days off a month, but you can reduce yourself to 1 day below the min (ie. 10 days off) if you are picking up open time. At 9E (From what I was told) you can reduce yourself up to 1 day off in 7. The JCBA compromises these 2 sections and allows you to reduce yourself up to 3 days below min for the month.

-Keeping min day
XJ has a minimum of 4 hrs pay per day. So lets say you are only scheduled to fly (or DH) 1 leg worth 1:30, you would still get 4:00 for the day. If you show up you get that, even if your flight cancels. When we got this we were looking at some of the other regionals rigs, most of those look back at the average of the trip. Whereas ours is on a day by day basis. ie If you fly 6 hrs the first day and 2 hrs the second at Comair (I believe), you daily average is 4 hrs and you gain nothing. At XJ you would get 6 hrs for the first day and 4 hrs for the second and would gain 2 hrs of pay.

2 Seperate issues here. Post was written in XJ slang though.

 

[Ridgeback]

9E Health Insurance, pilot contribution at %25

Would a 9E guy please chime in....Is this ALOT! worse than you have now....at Mesaba we are at 30% and it cost $360/month vs your $150/Month...plus 9's insurance is WAY better in terms of bennifits...

 

[Ridgeback]

- XJ type post-amendable % raises
- 5 year duration

So if post-amendable % raises are contract 04 recapture does this mean in 2015 I'll still be getting paid what I should have been pain in 04? Not to mention add another six years with 9e Mgt tatics..

I'm failing to see what makes this an improvment from what we already have?

 

[CptMurf]

- XJ type post-amendable % raises
- 5 year duration

So if post-amendable % raises are contract 04 recapture does this mean in 2015 I'll still be getting paid what I should have been pain in 04? Not to mention add another six years with 9e Mgt tatics..

I'm failing to see what makes this an improvment from what we already have?

I think he means the 3% cola raise built into the restructuring agreement, not the snapbacks. There is less reason for mgmt. to stretch out negotiations if we are getting raises every year regardless.

 

[Ridgeback]

- XJ type post-amendable % raises
- 5 year duration

So if post-amendable % raises are contract 04 recapture does this mean in 2015 I'll still be getting paid what I should have been pain in 04? Not to mention add another six years with 9e Mgt tatics..

I'm failing to see what makes this an improvment from what we already have?

copied from APC
Pilots only have 1 plan. It's the best of all the company plans and is $150/mo for family (married or with kids) or 3% up to $30/mo for single.

Am I reading this right...mesaba currently 30% 9e Currently 3% and we meet in the middle at %25 WTF!!!

 

[CptMurf]

9E Health Insurance, pilot contribution at %25

Would a 9E guy please chime in....Is this ALOT! worse than you have now....at Mesaba we are at 30% and it cost $360/month vs your $150/Month...plus 9's insurance is WAY better in terms of bennifits...

Does this help you? https://www.employeebenefitswebsite.com/pinnacle/bypass.php?tier=10

 

[Ridgeback]

I thought the bi carrot for the Mesaba guys was 9E's health care???

 

[higney85]

STOP for one moment on the insurance and get the facts please. That quote from APC was written by me.

At 9E current book:
Single pilot cost= 3% of EARNINGS up to a $30/mo cap.
Family (to include husband/wife or husband/wife + 5 kids-all the same)= $150/mo.

Copays of $10 physicians and $25 for ER.
Rx= $5generic/ $10 brand name

Max out of pocket costs are $1700 single/ $3400 family a year (I think those numbers are right).

25% of the plan cost would put premiums alone between 200-250 bucks, all other associated costs would go up as well. This (in current form) is the jewel for 9E pilots and is the #1 thing mgmt wants to change for obvious reasons.

 

[Ridgeback]

STOP for one moment on the insurance and get the facts please. That quote from APC was written by me.

At 9E current book:
Single pilot cost= 3% of EARNINGS up to a $30/mo cap.
Family (to include husband/wife or husband/wife + 5 kids-all the same)= $150/mo.

Copays of $10 physicians and $25 for ER.
Rx= $5generic/ $10 brand name

Max out of pocket costs are $1700 single/ $3400 family a year (I think those numbers are right).

25% of the plan cost would put premiums alone between 200-250 bucks, all other associated costs would go up as well. This (in current form) is the jewel for 9E pilots and is the #1 thing mgmt wants to change for obvious reasons.

Im'm happy you responed then. Seems to me this is a non-negonatable item on the list. This is like scope...once the geni is out you'll never put it back in. I hope the JCN isn't going to give ground on this one!!!

 

[i fly boxes]

What's this dual qual reserve thing. That scares me right away. It better have big time rules put in place as to what you can fly in one day