91 Operations

[wilky10]

Does anyone know if you are allowed to have alcohol for your passengers on part 91 operations. If so, where would I be able to find it in the fars. I know your allowed to have it on airliners and I believe on part 135 ops. I was looking for it under 91, the only thing I could find is where it talks about the pilots BAC and the 8 hour rule. Any help on this would be appreciated.

 

[Lead Sled]

Have you never seen the well stocked bars on most (if not every) business jet? The FARS don't address it - it's Part 91, but from a legal liability standpoint you're considered a host and you would want to be careful not to unleash a group of intoxicated passengers and let them drive home from the airport.

 

[banned username 2]

Does anyone know if you are allowed to have alcohol for your passengers on part 91 operations. If so, where would I be able to find it in the fars. I know your allowed to have it on airliners and I believe on part 135 ops. I was looking for it under 91, the only thing I could find is where it talks about the pilots BAC and the 8 hour rule. Any help on this would be appreciated.

Yes, you can have alcohol available for your passengers, no problem... All of our aircraft have well stocked mini-bars...

 

[nosehair]

91.17(b) "Except in an emergency, no pilot of a civil aircraft may allow a person who appears to be intoxicated or who demonstrates by manner or physical indications that the individual is under the influence of drugs (except a medical patient under proper care) to be carried in that aircraft."

Yeah, you can have and serve alcohol, but then you have to nanny them.

 

[gear_guy]

Even though we have a well stocked bar, our policy is to not serve it. There is a legality involved that I don't know much about. I have heard that if you serve the alcohol and some guy drives home and kills somebody you can be held liable under the law. We just let our pax serve themselves and that seems to solve it.

 

[transpac]

Even though we have a well stocked bar, our policy is to not serve it. There is a legality involved that I don't know much about. I have heard that if you serve the alcohol and some guy drives home and kills somebody you can be held liable under the law. We just let our pax serve themselves and that seems to solve it.

Liability may be part of the problem. Also, on two-pilot airplanes without a FA there's no crewmember who can legally serve drinks inflight.

 

[gear_guy]

Liability may be part of the problem. Also, on two-pilot airplanes without a FA there's no crewmember who can legally serve drinks inflight.

I am unaware of that law. Can you inform me what you know about it. Is it an FAR 91 reg? Can you not fill the decanters on a pre-flight?

 

[Lead Sled]

When it comes to alcohol on a Part 91 aircraft, you're just like any other host. The passengers can serve themselves or the f/a can serve it. The liability enters into the picture if/when they imbibbed too much and cause problems on the way home from the airport - no different than if they were guests in your home or attended the company's office party.

 

[transpac]

I am unaware of that law. Can you inform me what you know about it. Is it an FAR 91 reg? Can you not fill the decanters on a pre-flight?

FAR 91.105 states that required flight crewmembers shall remain at their station with safety belt fastened unless their absence is required for physiological reasons or in connection with the operation of the aircraft. In essence, this means you can can only get up for very limited reasons, such as taking a whiz or doing a security check in the cabin. Getting up to pass out box lunches, shoot the bull, or pour drinks is not permitted. Preflight activities are not covered by this regulation.

 

[English]

Why would you ever even THINK of serving alcohol to your passengers? What happens when you spill a little on yourself, while in uniform? How many people will you come across the rest of the day that will believe your story? The linemen at the FBO, your next passengers, your dry cleaner, the FAA when they meet you for an unexpected ramp check at your next stop...just don't do it.

Let them serve themselves.

 

[gear_guy]

What happens when you spill a little on yourself, while in uniform? How many people will you come across the rest of the day that will believe your story?

First of all, I don't wear a "pilot uniform." So my arabian drycleaner (who can't speak English) can say all he wants (in arabic). I'm sure the FBI, DNS, etc. will be all ears.

Secondly, I don't really care. My excuse would be that I was fulfilling my duties as an f/o by making sure the airplane was stocked. If they don't believe me, so what? Give me a breathalizer. That should prove it. If you have nothing to hide, you should hide nothing.

Thirdly, You can "what if?" it to death but if there's no reg to keep me from performing my duties, I'm not gonna sweat it.

BTW English- I'm not disagreeing with you. Like I said earlier our policy is to let them serve their own alcohol. But I was responding to filling the decanter before or after a flight. Somebody has to do it.

 

[banned username 2]

First of all, I don't wear a "pilot uniform." So my arabian drycleaner (who can't speak English) can say all he wants (in arabic). I'm sure the FBI, DNS, etc. will be all ears.

Secondly, I don't really care. My excuse would be that I was fulfilling my duties as an f/o by making sure the airplane was stocked. If they don't believe me, so what? Give me a breathalizer. That should prove it. If you have nothing to hide, you should hide nothing.

Thirdly, You can "what if?" it to death but if there's no reg to keep me from performing my duties, I'm not gonna sweat it.

BTW English- I'm not disagreeing with you. Like I said earlier our policy is to let them serve their own alcohol. But I was responding to filling the decanter before or after a flight. Somebody has to do it.

Don't forget, perception is reality in the world... The difference between "appearing guilty" and actually being guilty are a very fine line...

 

[501261]

Does anyone know if you are allowed to have alcohol for your passengers on part 91 operations. If so, where would I be able to find it in the fars. I know your allowed to have it on airliners and I believe on part 135 ops. I was looking for it under 91, the only thing I could find is where it talks about the pilots BAC and the 8 hour rule. Any help on this would be appreciated.

Going back to the original poster’s question, it appears that he is asking whether there is some kind of “open container” type law for the passengers. In other words can he take a couple of friends up in a Baron with a case of beer. The answer is, sure you can as long as the required flight crew does not partake. The problems you have though are the liability as has been discussed and also the perception. Generally attracting attention to yourself while flying is not a good thing. Imagine how much attention that Baron will attract on the ramp with beer cans falling out and a couple of guys stumbling out?

 

[Jedi_Cheese]

Generally attracting attention to yourself while flying is not a good thing. Imagine how much attention that Baron will attract on the ramp with beer cans falling out and a couple of guys stumbling out?

That isn't on the shutdown checklist?

 

[Lead Sled]

...Generally attracting attention to yourself while flying is not a good thing. Imagine how much attention that Baron will attract on the ramp with beer cans falling out and a couple of guys stumbling out?

Boy, that's the truth. I enjoy Martinelli's Sparkling Apple Juice and I used to keep some iced down in the airplane. It didn't dawn on me how much it looked like a bottle of Miller's beer until it was pointed out to me one day at one of the FBOs that we frequented - people were noticing and starting to talk. (Hey, and I don't drink!)

When it comes to flying and alcohol you need to "avoid even the appearance of evil". Back when I flew for one of the majors, it was an unpardonable sin to be seen in a bar with your uniform on.

Lead Sled

 

[gear_guy]

I am starting to realize some things about this board.


1. It is really difficult to talk about a particular subject and include all of aviation. The differences between 91, 135, and 121 are alot greater than I imagined. I have found that the 121 guy does'nt see it like the 91 guy, and visa-versa. And sometimes I can be more confused, the more posts I read. The most frustrating part is not being able to get your point across to the other person.

However,

2. No matter how different we may all be(ie. 91, 135, etc.) I have usually found that everyone's opinion is valid and helpful. It is quite beneficial to have all of the different aspects and opinions.

Anyways, I just want to thank everyone that responds professionally. It does our profession good to communicate with each other and share our differences.
Who would have thought 50 years ago we'd be hashing out the issues with each other from different sides of the world.

Now....Can we get a group hug