90s diverted to Skywest

[ASADriver]

900s diverted to Skywest

Looks like the ASA MEC is now admitting that the 90 seaters were diverted to Skywest. This is a change in what they were saying. How many times have we heard that the 900s were never coming to ASA. Latest MEC email says the 90 seaters were diverted. The story keeps changing.


1. A Personal Message from MEC Vice Chairman Tom Zerbarini

Your MEC hears you, all of you! We know that your aggravation level is
immense. The recent National Mediation Board (NMB) re-recess and
management's intransigence in these negotiations have us all frustrated
beyond measure. We also know that management is out there spinning the facts
and blaming the union for the current inactivity.

Let me make this very clear; this MEC is in touch with the needs you, the
ASA pilot, communicated. We have tasked the Contract Negotiating Team (CNC)
to obtain a contract that's fair for our pilots and that ASA and SkyWest,
Inc. can afford. The CNC is making every reasonable effort to reach a deal.
Despite this, our management will not properly engage us and is clearly not
making efforts to reach a deal. The miniscule moves offered from the other
side of the bargaining table are insulting and ludicrous. We have stated
numerous times, and even indicated in our previous two passes, that we are
ready to move on a number of issues. We just need to see the same level of
commitment from the company.

So what are we asking for? Let's put it this way - most of our goals are
considered industry standard and/or a benefit already in place for SkyWest
pilots. We are simply trying to catch up to everyone else.

So what does management want to do instead of negotiate? They want to bust
this union, and bust the organizing drive at SkyWest. Consequently,
management is transferring ASA assets to SkyWest and closing our base in
SLC. In essence, they are transferring jobs to non-union employees.

Management has dangled the CRJ-900 carrot to coax us into lowering our goals
at the bargaining table. They want us to buy these airplanes with contract
terms. Since we did not immediately give in and accept a concessionary
contract, management is now diverting deliveries of new equipment (see
abracadabra, June 9th, 2006, The Connection Newsletter) to SkyWest, in
essence, to punish the ASA pilots.

While the ASA pilots are being squeezed, management is growing SkyWest like
crazy. They are using this growth like a double-edged sword: Squeeze the ASA
pilots to accept a substandard contract and, at the same time, grow SkyWest
to try to squash the union drive there.

Simply put, they are infuriating the ASA pilots and trying to appease the
SkyWest pilots. Management is simply trying to apply outside pressure while
we are in Section 6 Negotiations - is this legal? Some say no and other say
yes, but no matter how you look at it, it's nothing short of union busting!

Let me say something about the SkyWest pilots. As you can imagine many
SkyWest pilots are tickled about the idea of a quick upgrade and better
schedules with this sudden burst of massive growth. There are also many
pilots that are angry that they are being forced to fly a 70- and now the
90-seater for 50-seat pay rates.

As a non-union carrier SkyWest pilots are "at will" employees, have no
contract, have no grievance process, have no safety committee, do not have
legal help or advice, and the list goes on. The thing they the most now
is the fact that they are being used as a tool and an apparent attempt to
break the ASA pilots. They are also afraid that if we cave on our priorities
and accept a substandard contract, we will be used as a tool against them.
Unless we stop the madness now, the two pilot groups will be whipsawed
against one-another forever.

So what are we doing about all of this? I'm glad you asked.

First, this MEC is in contact with all the DCI carriers to coordinate our
efforts and resources so that we can be sure that our bargaining goals
compliment and do not hinder each other. Second, during our last MEC
meeting we developed a strategy that involves ALPA president Duane Woerth.
We spoke with Duane during the recent ALPA Executive Board meeting and
expect to hear back from him this week about the ability to execute this
effort.

As stated previously, although our negotiations may be recessed, the ASA MEC
and its committee structure are actively pursuing ways to jumpstart this
process and to negotiate the contract you deserve. With time and patience,
we will get there together. Thanks for doing your part!

Tom

 

[ASADFW7]

Reading this is tough. Being in their position is tougher.

 

[Willy21]

Just a thought, you would look less like a loser if you took the 737 type off. That just says to me that you went through the school and having that listed only proves you couldn't get the job. Then again you might not care. If that is the case you are the perfect ASA mgmt type.

 

[XPOO]

Go Tom, Go Tom! It's your birthday. Look at Tom dispense the ALPA kool-aid. It took this letter to make me realize how bad the SkyWest pilots have had it these past 35 years. I'm sad now. HAHA. NOT!

 

[ASADriver]

Just a thought, you would look less like a looser if you took the 737 type off. That just says to me that you went through the school and having that listed only proves you couldn't get the job. Then again you might not care. If that is the case you are the perfect ASA mgmt type.

Just a thought, you would look less like a LOSER if you spelled it correctly. Now do you want to talk about why ALPA has changed it's position on the 90s?

 

[ILOVEBEER]

Actually, they're 900's not "90's".

 

[USCtrojan]

Actually, they're 900's not "90's".

I have a hard time believing that pilots purchase airplanes with their wages.

Trojan

 

[ASADFW7]

nevermind

 

[ASADriver]

Actually, they're 900's not "90's".

OK there you go. 900s. Now why has the story changed?

 

[Willy21]

If you look to the left it will show you that I dont' care about you and your mgmt team. You are a perfect fit for ASA. Enjoy watching your planes and your job go to SkyWest.

 

[ASADriver]

If you look to the left it will show you that I dont' care about you and your mgmt team. You are a perfect fit for ASA. Enjoy watching your planes and your job go to SkyWest.

I'm not enjoying it, just asking why the union keeps changing their position. Isn't mighty ALPA going to protect us? Sounds like even ALPA is starting to admit that there isn't much they can do.

 

[Willy21]

Looks like you might need a new job to support you weight problem biscuit.

 

[myflyby]

I don't envy ASA's position. I hate to think that Skywest management are sitting back just pulling the puppet strings on both sides. But it would be naive to think they aren't going to. We all know their job is to make their company the most profitable that they can, but is there at least one magagement out there that won't go the extra mile to be underhanded and actually act with SOME interest on behalf of their employees. I guess greed has a way of affecting people!

 

[ILOVEBEER]

OK there you go. 900s. Now why has the story changed?

It hasn't. It's still bullsh!t.

 

[DirkkDiggler]

We all know their job is to make their company the most profitable that they can, but is there at least one magagement out there that won't go the extra mile to be underhanded and actually act with SOME interest on behalf of their employees. I guess greed has a way of affecting people!

Sounds great, but the margins in this business are so thin these days that these companies have to penny pinch.

 

[sstearns2]

As a non-union carrier SkyWest pilots are "at will" employees, have no

contract, have no grievance process, have no safety committee, do not have
legal help or advice, and the list goes on.

The ASA MEC representative is being intellectually dishonest. Here’s the wikipedia definition: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intellectual_dishonesty

Skywest employees are ‘at will’ employees. I’ve been working for Skywest for just over 5 years and I know several pilots who have made serious mistakes both in the operation of the airplane and in their dealings with other employees. None were fired. All were retrained or disciplined in a reasonable way and put back on line. There is also a process whereby a terminated employee can request a review of their case by a panel of management and pilot representatives.

We do have a grievance process. It’s called a PIC, policy interpretation complaint. You file it online and a pilot representative takes it to management.

I don’t believe we have an official safety committee, but we do have pilot representatives that work on safety. The best example of this is our ASAP program. It’s basically a super NASA reporting program. Skywest pilots file hundreds of these per year and it’s saved a few peoples careers in addition to letting Flight Standards know what to work on.

Skywest pilots have gotten company provided legal help in the past. I’m not sure of the depth or breath of the legal help, but the company has paid to defend pilots against the FAA before. Also, the current and previous SAPA presidents are very experienced lawyers.

My intent is not to say that ALPA is better or worse than Skywest’s current pilot representation group, but to point out that the ASA MEC is not presenting the whole story about Skywest’s pilot representation, he is being intellectually dishonest.

Thanks for reading this, especially the last paragraph.

Scott

 

[amcnd]

Ive been with a ALPA airline for 6 years and now at SkyWest. I will take SkyWest any-day over what I went through with ALPA!!!

 

[Ponchus pilot]

Skywest employees are ‘at will’ employees. I’ve been working for Skywest for just over 5 years and I know several pilots who have made serious mistakes both in the operation of the airplane and in their dealings with other employees. None were fired. All were retrained or disciplined in a reasonable way and put back on line. There is also a process whereby a terminated employee can request a review of their case by a panel of management and pilot representatives.

We do have a grievance process. It’s called a PIC, policy interpretation complaint. You file it online and a pilot representative takes it to management.

I don’t believe we have an official safety committee, but we do have pilot representatives that work on safety. The best example of this is our ASAP program. It’s basically a super NASA reporting program. Skywest pilots file hundreds of these per year and it’s saved a few peoples careers in addition to letting Flight Standards know what to work on.

Skywest pilots have gotten company provided legal help in the past. I’m not sure of the depth or breath of the legal help, but the company has paid to defend pilots against the FAA before. Also, the current and previous SAPA presidents are very experienced lawyers.

My intent is not to say that ALPA is better or worse than Skywest’s current pilot representation group, but to point out that the ASA MEC is not presenting the whole story about Skywest’s pilot representation, he is being intellectually dishonest.

Thanks for reading this, especially the last paragraph.

I dont know why all threads in the regional boards always turn into Union bashing. Here is what most pilots including many union members dont understsand. Your union is only as stong as your pilot group. I have many friends at Skywest and they like many aspects of working there. Your management seems to be good and employee relations are not bad. What you have to realize is that everything that you have could be taken away if its not written down in a contract and if its not written down you are at the mercy of management to do what they wish. Now they have not done that in the past 35 years but it does not mean they wont in the future.

Now answer me this one question. As pilots in service of Skywest I understand why you might be aprehensive of ALPA. Why not have an inhouse union and put things in writing?

Ive been with a ALPA airline for 6 years and now at SkyWest. I will take SkyWest any-day over what I went through with ALPA!!!

That might be true. If you know how unions work you should know that each company and Union has their own contract. Your union got you the best they could at the time and it would have been much worse if you didnt have a union. Just because you worked for a crappy airline that had bad management it does not mean that Unions dont work. As bad as Mesa is at least they have a contract and if I'm correct they make a little more that skywest pilots in some instances.

 

[Hootie9750]

As bad as Mesa is at least they have a contract and if I'm correct they make a little more that skywest pilots in some instances.

HAHAHAHA! Mesa doesn't pay for any sort of weather cancelation, plus they only pay for average flight times...no matter what. The only instance I can think of a Mesa employee making more than anyone is a 10 year Mesa captain probably does make more per hour than a CFI.
Mesa sucks!! Spread the news!

 

[atrdriver]

The ASA MEC representative is being intellectually dishonest. Here’s the wikipedia definition: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intellectual_dishonesty

Skywest employees are ‘at will’ employees. I’ve been working for Skywest for just over 5 years and I know several pilots who have made serious mistakes both in the operation of the airplane and in their dealings with other employees. None were fired. All were retrained or disciplined in a reasonable way and put back on line. There is also a process whereby a terminated employee can request a review of their case by a panel of management and pilot representatives.

We do have a grievance process. It’s called a PIC, policy interpretation complaint. You file it online and a pilot representative takes it to management.

I don’t believe we have an official safety committee, but we do have pilot representatives that work on safety. The best example of this is our ASAP program. It’s basically a super NASA reporting program. Skywest pilots file hundreds of these per year and it’s saved a few peoples careers in addition to letting Flight Standards know what to work on.

Skywest pilots have gotten company provided legal help in the past. I’m not sure of the depth or breath of the legal help, but the company has paid to defend pilots against the FAA before. Also, the current and previous SAPA presidents are very experienced lawyers.

My intent is not to say that ALPA is better or worse than Skywest’s current pilot representation group, but to point out that the ASA MEC is not presenting the whole story about Skywest’s pilot representation, he is being intellectually dishonest.

Thanks for reading this, especially the last paragraph.

Scott

You can say they are being intellectually dishonest if you wish, but the fact is that all those things that you mentioned you have because management has given them to you. There is nothing that says they can't take them away from you. I'm not saying that they will, or ever would, but they could. That is one advantage to a union with a contract. It is legally binding. The agreement that you have is not. I'm not saying that your agreement isn't good, and in some areas better than ours, but it is not legally binding. It can be taken away, whether it will be or not.

 

[Eric]

Yeah, it is legally binding until the company violates it and tells you with a smirk on their face to grieve it knowing what a pain that is and then it's grieved and essentially re-interpreted and you are flying 3 naps in a row and then some because what management initially inteded wasn't what was in the contract and now it is due to the re-interpretive grievance process.

How about that for a run-on!

 

[atrdriver]

Yeah, it is legally binding until the company violates it and tells you with a smirk on their face to grieve it knowing what a pain that is and then it's grieved and essentially re-interpreted and you are flying 3 naps in a row and then some because what management initially inteded wasn't what was in the contract and now it is due to the re-interpretive grievance process.

How about that for a run-on!

Yeah, that is a grievance that we lost. There have been a lot of grievances that we ahve won as well. I'm not saying that our current contract is perfect, it is obviously not, that is why we are trying to negotiate a better one. But at least we DO have a grievance process, that is protected by law. Skywest may currently have a process to address disputes with their agreement, but it is subject to managements whim.

 

[CFIT]

Yeah, that is a grievance that we lost. There have been a lot of grievances that we ahve won as well. I'm not saying that our current contract is perfect, it is obviously not, that is why we are trying to negotiate a better one. But at least we DO have a grievance process, that is protected by law. Skywest may currently have a process to address disputes with their agreement, but it is subject to managements whim.

So you have some grevs you've lost and some you've won, that's no different that the PIC situation at SkyWest. From what I've read ASA ALPA can't get a contract set due to management, can't get released due to the mediator, and contract policies get stomped when the company needs to. So how again is ALPA going to make things so much better for SkyWest pilots?

 

[Dubya]

It is unbelievable that people still think that just having a union and a "contract" will save their jobs. I wonder if all the TWA, Eastern, PanAm, Braniff, etc.etc. and so on...thought the same thing.

SkyWest does have a safety committee...it's called ASAP I believe.

SkyWest does have an inhouse union...it's called SAPA I believe.

W

 

[Gobi Gred]

SAPA is NOT A UNION. A pilot group representative maybe, but not a union.

 

[Peter Griffin]

As a non-union carrier SkyWest pilots are "at will" employees, have no
contract, have no grievance process, have no safety committee, do not have
legal help or advice, and the list goes on.

Just want to clarify some of this. We have a "contract," just not the same as a union one. And the compnay does stick to its word which is laid out in our "contract." As a matter of fact, it reads just like any union contract. ASA types seem to think this changes about ever other day, but really it remains pretty much the same, sometimes getting better, sometime worse, but usually better than industry average. But, I will admit, this is a little wishy-washy for some people, because its not LEGALLY binding, even though 99.9 percent of the time its applied. Which brings me to my second point - there IS a grievance process here. If you feel you are wronged, you can talk to your CP. Most issues can simply be worked out by giving so and so a call (i.e. just call payroll if they forgot something). If you really think that you got screwed, you can go to your CP or your SAPA rep. If you REALLY screwed up, you still generally wont get fired unless you committed the 2 cardinal sins - lied or cheated. All of this works 99.9 percent of the time as well. We also have a safety committee. It is called ASAP, and run through the company. It is very similar to the NASA program, but more specific to SKYW. It is an excellent program designed to get us to talk about problems we are seeing on the line while giving us some immunity from the FAA. UNLIMITED legal advice is one of our optional benefits and costs a miniscule amount per month (I believe it is under 10 dollars, but dont quote me).

Im curious to see what the rest of the "on and on list" is and if we have it in some form or another. I have generally not gotten involved in the ASA vs. SKYW discussions, but this was blatently wrong in my opinion. There is so mis-information from both sides on this whole thing that nobody seems to stop and get the facts first.

 

[Dubya]

SAPA is NOT A UNION. A pilot group representative maybe, but not a union.

Ok. So now tell me what it is that a "union" does? I could have sworn it was to represent pilots?


W

 

[Stifler's Mom]

SAPA is NOT A UNION. A pilot group representative maybe, but not a union.

I spoke with a senior Captain from SKW about SAPA, and he described them as "a group of people who continually have the wool pulled over their eyes by management."

 

[atrdriver]

Just want to clarify some of this. We have a "contract," just not the same as a union one. And the compnay does stick to its word which is laid out in our "contract." As a matter of fact, it reads just like any union contract. ASA types seem to think this changes about ever other day, but really it remains pretty much the same, sometimes getting better, sometime worse, but usually better than industry average. But, I will admit, this is a little wishy-washy for some people, because its not LEGALLY binding, even though 99.9 percent of the time its applied. Which brings me to my second point - there IS a grievance process here. If you feel you are wronged, you can talk to your CP. Most issues can simply be worked out by giving so and so a call (i.e. just call payroll if they forgot something). If you really think that you got screwed, you can go to your CP or your SAPA rep. If you REALLY screwed up, you still generally wont get fired unless you committed the 2 cardinal sins - lied or cheated.

You apparantly need to re read my post. I didn't say that Skywest didn't have a working agreement. Nor did I say that management violates it with any consistancy. What I said is that the protections that you have are all given to you by management. Your "grievance" process is granted to you by the company. I'm not saying that they would ever take it away, but they could, and if they decided to there is nothing that could be done about it. Same thing with your working agreement. I don't think that they would ever just throw it out, but they could, and there is nothing that could be done about it. That is one advantage of a Union. Notice that I didn't say ALPA, I sais a Union. ALPA does not have an advantage as far as representation goes, but they do have an advantage as far as expertise goes.

Skywest obviously has a lot of good things in regards to their pilots. I sincerely hope that all those good things continue to be offered. But, if one day JA walks in and says "These pilot just make way too much money", there is nothing that you can do to stop him from taking action. That may or may not ever happen, but if it ever does it will be too late for a union.

 

[Peter Griffin]

You apparantly need to re read my post. I didn't say that Skywest didn't have a working agreement. Nor did I say that management violates it with any consistancy. What I said is that the protections that you have are all given to you by management. Your "grievance" process is granted to you by the company. I'm not saying that they would ever take it away, but they could, and if they decided to there is nothing that could be done about it. Same thing with your working agreement. I don't think that they would ever just throw it out, but they could, and there is nothing that could be done about it. That is one advantage of a Union. Notice that I didn't say ALPA, I sais a Union. ALPA does not have an advantage as far as representation goes, but they do have an advantage as far as expertise goes.

Skywest obviously has a lot of good things in regards to their pilots. I sincerely hope that all those good things continue to be offered. But, if one day JA walks in and says "These pilot just make way too much money", there is nothing that you can do to stop him from taking action. That may or may not ever happen, but if it ever does it will be too late for a union.

Re-read it? I was responding to a letter you were quoting in your original post. Regardless, I wasnt trying to launch an attack on you personally. I was just trying to clarify the items presented in the MEC letter.

I think the main difference between ASA and SKYW is their attitudes. The corporate culture at ASA seems to be predominately pessimistic, and SKYW is predominately optomistic. I dont even blame ASA employees for being that way. I worked for another airline that was very negative, and it was no fun. While you are willing to bet on the fact we NEED a union just in case the .1% chance SKYW management decides to just throw everything away, SKYW employees (not all, but, IMHO, a majority), would rather put just a little faith in the 30 years of trust this team has built with their pilots. You're right. They could just take everything away - but why? Just to prove they have power? Cut costs on the backs of their employees? If they wanted to do that, it would have already happened, especially in todays environment. I dont think SGU wants to become the next Mesa/Freedom/Geauxjet - because it doesnt make good sense and fit the values of this company. They have proven they can still be profitable while treating their employees well. Ill get off my soapbox now :erm: