90 Seat RJs - Redefining the Profession

[may]

Surplus ,

Do you even fly the line? You seem to have more time to spend here than any pilot I know.

 

[sabreliner]

I don't know too much about the "island" (which we don't operate) and I'll have to agree that I've often shared the pain of Concourse C in ATL (which we also do not operate). Now that we're doing some ATL runs, it's a cause of constant concern (at C & D) in maintaining our accustomed level of service/reliability. I didn't want to point fingers at other carriers.



The Metro has difficulty qualifying as an airplane. They are long gone, but they still didn't cancel for loads. They canceled for mechanicals. If you look at the trip numbers between IAH and DFW you'll find we don't fly that route. We have 1 daily RT CVG-DFW; 3- DFW-CRP and 1 DFW-SAT. If you've had trouble on those let me know. I know there's this DCI thing, but the truth is we still haven't been "assimilated" (thank goodness). Please don't lump us into that barrel. We've been bought, but we still have our identity which I know, regretably, may eventually die. We can't be responsible for other "brands" or their people. Like I said in the other post, "all regionals are not the same".

Hmm...Very interesting posts. I'd like to see Comair run the stations (ATL C+D and Gilligan's Island) better with the resources and job pool we have. I'll admit, it is pretty bad in ATL, but DFW actually does a decent job. Unfortunately, making matters worse in both places, Delta has us operating more flights than we have gate space for at times. This alone is a source a good portion of our troubles. If we would invest in a facility like that Taj-Mahl Comair has in CVG, it would certainly help. In order to do the job, we need to have the resources.

Also, I've spoken to managers regarding the manpower problem. I don't know what the situation is like in CVG, but in DFW and ATL, we simply can't find people to work the ramp. Those that do come to work often aren't worth the money we pay them.

Finally, it certainly isn't our crews. All of us are working twice as hard to try and pick up as much of the slack as possible. Howfully management will get it together. Or, if we were merged, they could bring in some of the Comair guys and apply their ideas. See if they could make it work.

After all, we essentially work for the same company already...

Frats,
An E120 Captain at that "other" carrier

 

[FlyingSig]

No, we're not using ACARS. Our pay system does not lend it self to padding. There is no need. Most of us would prefer to maintain our reputation than the few cents you migh occasionally pick up. It's a pride thing, seldom understood in today's world. Part of our "culture", which is very much our own.

I never mentioned pay. It's very easy to just say "out ontime" over the radio when you're say, a mere 5-10 minutes past departure. As for pay - for my own education - you don't get paid scheduled vs. actual? Are you paid a peg time? How do you get paid for going over block?

The Metro has difficulty qualifying as an airplane. They are long gone, but they still didn't cancel for loads. They canceled for mechanicals. If you look at the trip numbers between IAH and DFW you'll find we don't fly that route. We have 1 daily RT CVG-DFW; 3- DFW-CRP and 1 DFW-SAT. If you've had trouble on those let me know. I know there's this DCI thing, but the truth is we still haven't been "assimilated" (thank goodness). Please don't lump us into that barrel. We've been bought, but we still have our identity which I know, regretably, may eventually die. We can't be responsible for other "brands" or their people. Like I said in the other post, "all regionals are not the same".

I never said loads (first pay now this... guilty concience?). I said reliability. This includes maintenance. As for DFW-IAH , Comair did fly that route when I was employed. Skywest took it from you guys I think in JAN or FEB. Now I have to jump on you for the second half of that paragraph... are you or aren't you operationally integrated? That seems to be the big argument for the PID but here you are putting it in writing that you're not.

PS. Hoping you'll soon be back.

Thanks, me too, but I have been enjoying the time off. When's the next time my schedule will show 82 days off (and counting) in a row? I just wish I could afford to golf more....

 

[skydiverdriver]

May,
What does president mean? Is this your website? Perhaps that would explain why it always leans in a particular direction. You are very opinionated, which is fine, but do you feel that others should be able to express their opinions as well?

 

[skydiverdriver]

Surplus,
Don't worry too much about Publisher. Most of what he says makes no sense, and what does is pretty offensive. I think he likes airplanes, but hates hourly workers. He keeps telling us that he went to the RAA convention in Nashville, but nobody seems to care. I personally don't like shows, I would rather fly airplanes. People like publisher are the reason I don't like talking to management types.

 

[publisher]

Surplus

You may be right that Comair could not have withstood the strike that long and costly, the question is whether everything else would have remained the same if Delta had not been the parent.

The RAA is an association and does not really state positions on this as to spin offs or not.

The majors interest at this point will be in maintaining several feeder relationships and they will watch carefully to see that they do not grow too large.

I do not have a crystal ball but I would think that AE is a likely candidate for spin off. They could move everything to Executive and do it quite easily. Perhaps an ACA and ASA combine and spin on the Delta side.

Skydiverdriver, I do not think that Surplus is worried about me. He puts intelligent thought into what he writes.

The point as to your labor agreements, the majors are just going to want enough lift out there that they always have a contract carrier available. As for me, I am not even sure what a regional is.

 

[TurboS7]

There is no doubt that more frequency with smaller aircraft is not as efficient as one flight a day in a large aircraft. But the customer drives the need and it looks like, especially based on the SWA model that more freq. with smaller aircraft is what the general public wants to see. Both here in America and Europe, look at Easyjet and Ryanair in the U.K.

 

[surplus1]

Hmm...Very interesting posts. I'd like to see Comair run the stations (ATL C+D and Gilligan's Island) better with the resources and job pool we have. I'll admit, it is pretty bad in ATL, but DFW actually does a decent job. Unfortunately, making matters worse in both places, Delta has us operating more flights than we have gate space for at times. This alone is a source a good portion of our troubles. If we would invest in a facility like that Taj-Mahl Comair has in CVG, it would certainly help. In order to do the job, we need to have the resources.

Also, I've spoken to managers regarding the manpower problem. I don't know what the situation is like in CVG, but in DFW and ATL, we simply can't find people to work the ramp. Those that do come to work often aren't worth the money we pay them.

Finally, it certainly isn't our crews. All of us are working twice as hard to try and pick up as much of the slack as possible. Howfully management will get it together. Or, if we were merged, they could bring in some of the Comair guys and apply their ideas. See if they could make it work.

After all, we essentially work for the same company already...

Frats,
An E120 Captain at that "other" carrier

First off, no offense to ASA pilots. As you point out, flight crews don't cause customer service problems in 99% of cases. I know a lot of your pilots and I don't find you to be any different from us. This isn't about pilots, it's about customer service and what used to be a corporate culture. (Note the past tense).

Now that Delta owns both Comair and ASA, whatever happens in the future will be Delta's responsibility. At one point in time Delta was noted for superior treatment of customers. Ever since Ron Allen's 7.5 initiative, Delta service has deteriorated. That's not exactly a secret. Leo has been trying to restore it, but the "difference" that once was is gone.

What I said about ATL is based on my own experience as a passenger, not as a pilot. Who you hire to do your work is management's responsibility. The "job pool" available to you is dependent on how you pay your people and how you treat them. Even in Georgia, it IS possible to find good people, train them and pay them.

I didn't start out by criticizing anyone or naming any company, I just responded to FlyingSig who is a Delta pilot not an ASA pilot.

However, the truth is the truth. ASA service in ATL is lousy. In terms of the facility that CMR has in CVG, keep in mind that we didn't get it from Delta. We did it ourselves, with our money. The ability to provide good service was the result of reinvesting in the Company. There used to be a reason for that. Now that we have no company, what Delta does is what Delta does.

Before Delta bought ASA, it was well known that your owners put all the money in their pocket and invested little back into the company. That's their fault, not ours. The fact is that ASA's operations have improved as a result of being acquired by Delta. I'm probably blind but I can't think of anything that's improved at Comair since Delta swallowed it.

I agree that you don't have enough gate space in ATL, you never did. Based on observation, the gate space that you DO have is not managed very well. Chaos, is what it looks like to me. Again I blame ASA management (pre Delta). They did nothing to imporve their service and kept all the money. Pretty much everyone has the opinion that Delta bought ASA because of its bad service. I don't know if that's true or not. All I know is I haven't seen much of what I would call improvement. Delta has more money, but your new management hasn't done anything that I can see as a passenger (except change your paint job).

I obviously have no idea what Delta will invest in ASA or CMR in the future. Since Delta's interest in Comair has little if anything to do with the quality of service, I suspect it will deteriorate over time to the new "company standard".

Bringing in Comair people wouldn't do much to improve anything, in my opinion. The show is Delta's now. They are erasing our culture whereever they can and replacing it with their own. The truth is it doesn't matter any more. We've lost what we had and will just have to live with whatever replaces it. When a shark swallows a gold fish, the glitter vanishes in the gray.

Take care bro. The past is history, the present is mediocrity and the future is anybody's guess.

 

[surplus1]

BULL ----- **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**,

Your service has caused me more grief in the past than 3 screeming two year olds. I have to voice out now that you have crossed the line. I tried to read all your posts on recent issues with an open mind, and do firmly believe that you do have the blinders on. FDJ and Clownpilot have my vote. You accuse them of not seeing the other side but with your statements in the post in which I have quoted, you clearly are Hard headed one sided and all in it for yourself. If you are married than I would guess you have been divorced. If not, then I guess you have never been maried. If you are married and never been divorced then I'll bet your wife is affraid to divorce you. You show no signs of compromise and want it your way. I think BK is still hiring, and I don't mean their flight dept. You can fool yourself into thinking the RJ is for everybody, but until you create your own airline of them you will always be the step child. You are right in one thing you do probably get treated differently as a nonrev, because you certainly don't see the missery of the paying public.

Did you get up on the wrong side of the bed or were you just born with an unpleasant personality?

 

[surplus1]

I never mentioned pay. It's very easy to just say "out ontime" over the radio when you're say, a mere 5-10 minutes past departure. As for pay - for my own education - you don't get paid scheduled vs. actual? Are you paid a peg time? How do you get paid for going over block?

As far as I know, when it comes to statistical reporting, "ontime" is within 15 minutes of scheduled departure/arrival. As far as ACARS goes, I've used it and know all those tricks too. The ONLY point I was trying to make is that we have no incentive to pad the times.

With respect to pay, its greater of schedule or actual by segment. Isn't that how you get paid? I don't even know what a "peg time" is. There is no incentive for being under block. If we're over block we are paid for actual. Sorry, but I've apparently missed your point.

I never said loads (first pay now this... guilty concience?). I said reliability. This includes maintenance. As for DFW-IAH , Comair did fly that route when I was employed. Skywest took it from you guys I think in JAN or FEB. Now I have to jump on you for the second half of that paragraph... are you or aren't you operationally integrated? That seems to be the big argument for the PID but here you are putting it in writing that you're not.

You didn't say "canceled for loads" but the original posted implied that was the reason for cancellation/consolidation. Yes, you said reliability. I think our dispatch reliability is better than yours.

No, I don't have a guilty conscience about anything. Any chance you have a chip on your shoulder?

Where did I say we were not operationally integrated? Unless I'm mistaken what I did say was that we hand not yet been "assimilated". That means that in spite of the operational integration, we haven't yet lost all of who we once were. Some of us (that includes me) don't want to, but ALL of us realize that it's eventually inevitable.

We've already had the funeral service but we're still in mourning (and praying for a resurrection that we know probably won't come).

 

[ifly4food]

I've been told that Mesa-Freedom Air's pilots just signed a deal to fly the 70 and 90 seat RJs for less than the current ASA 50 seat rate. They also agreed to the jets for jobs plan. If so, that makes Mesa pilots the new whores of the industry.

Is undercutting other pilot groups to drive down wages improving the profession? Thanks ALPA brothers at Mesa.

 

[surplus1]

I've been told that Mesa-Freedom Air's pilots just signed a deal to fly the 70 and 90 seat RJs for less than the current ASA 50 seat rate. They also agreed to the jets for jobs plan. If so, that makes Mesa pilots the new whores of the industry.

Is undercutting other pilot groups to drive down wages improving the profession? Thanks ALPA brothers at Mesa.

I hope you're information is inaccurate, but I fear it may not be. It's amazing what pilots will do to themselves, especially unemployed pilots.

Before you condem Mesa pilots, are you sure those are the people accepting Freedom's offer?

Also, don't over look that there are people at JBlue, Spirit, AirTran, Vanguard, ATA, Frontier, etc., who fly 320s, DC-9s, 737s and 757s for WAY less than their counterparts at the "major" airlines. Don't blame regional pilots too much if they follow in the footsteps of their superior big airplane drivers. After all regional pilots are only in training.

Note also that regional pilots are defended by a union that apparently works harder against them than it does for them.

 

[Tim47SIP]

Publisher wrote:
"The majors interest at this point will be in maintaining several feeder relationships and they will watch carefully to see that they do not grow too large".

That may very well be true, but I sure cant see it. Have you looked at DCI expansion in the last 6 months, especially ASA? Watch what happens to ASA alone in the next 6 months. The only thing that will be able to stop the planned growth at ASA is DALPA. And we should know something fairly soon. I personnaly think that DALPA has a lot more power than people give them credit for and I hope that they come out of this with a leading industry plan to save their profession as well as their WO's. Although sometimes they do sound off the wall, I think that they are a little more level headed than the rest of the Major's. Hope I'm right.

Surplus,
Atlanta has a very real problem conserning customer service, not only at ASA, but the resteraunts, and neighboring communities. I personally have never seen any local population so rude in my life. Pay is an issue, but every day several rampers are arrested for various reasons or fired after a piss test. Yes, this is unequovocally Delta's problem, but almost unavoidable due to the work force availability. I know this is a round about way to describe the inherant problems in ATL, but I dont want to offend a specific group of the local population. I believe the ramp pay is the same or very close in DFW and MCO but there is night and day between DFW/MCO and ATL.
Additionally, if you take a look at the April 7th timetable, and look at the DCI gates picture, you will see that the whole north side of D will soon be all DCI. I have been informed by individuals in the GO that US Air will be leaving and we will be getting their gates as currently shown in the time table, (although I have asked the US Air folks there and they know nothing about leaving ATL) so who knows. Also, in the 5 year plan, ATrans is scheduled to move to a new sattelite concourse off of the new runway and DCI will have all of C. Although not an immediate fix, but there is a plan.
On a side note, just recently it has been determined that the delays are mostly the flight crews fault???? We now have to be at work one hour prior to departure (was 45 mins), Seems the individuals that put in the delay codes didnt like the real reason and changed them to reflect late crews, etc. On time departures are still about the same.

 

[publisher]

ACA

There has been expansion at all of them, but Delta has definitely favored more expansion where Comair cannot hurt them as badly.

 

[surplus1]

Tim47Sip,

Your message about ATL is loud and clear and I agree. It's unfortunate, but it's also true. I really don't envy anyone that has to work out of that airport or live in that city. It's a lot like EWR in many respects.

Sounds like the new plans will help a lot in the gate space department. I'll probably get shot for this, but the HR department could do better in the back of the airplane too.

Good luck to all of us.