8 Hour Rule

[dollacrackho]

How does everyone interpret the 8 hour rule?

For example i have a 4 leg day blocked at 7 hours 30 minutes. I overblock the first 3 legs.
I'm sitting at 7 hours after my third leg with a hour and half blocked flight left to go. Can I depart on the last leg knowing that I am go to exceed 8 hours.

According to my company the 4 leg day was legal to start so I can go over 8 hours.

 

[s.o.sJTB]

Legal to start...legal to finish, I have blocked nearly ten in one day before.....

 

[Buzo]

Legal to start, legal to finish

 

[rightrudder]

How does everyone interpret the 8 hour rule?

For example i have a 4 leg day blocked at 7 hours 30 minutes. I overblock the first 3 legs.
I'm sitting at 7 hours after my third leg with a hour and half blocked flight left to go. Can I depart on the last leg knowing that I am go to exceed 8 hours.

According to my company the 4 leg day was legal to start so I can go over 8 hours.

It is legal to start, legal to finish. You can't be scheduled to exceed 8 hours in a day. You can actually exceed 8 hours if you have delays and such that affect it. It is a daily basis, not a leg by leg basis.

 

[Andy Neill]

While agreeing with what has been said so far, if the delays during the day will put you in a position that you will have less than 8 hours rest in the last 24 by the time you now get off duty, that last leg is a no-go.

 

[dollacrackho]

what about the 30 in 7 rule? Our company is dropping legs from peoples schedules all the time for 30 in 7. What's the difference? If it was legal on paper when i got my schedule for the month why isnt it legal to start legal to finish for that?

 

[n757st]

30/7 is an actual block limit. 8 hour rule is only for scheduled flight. Once you go over 8 hours though you will have greater rest requirements, so watch out there.

 

[b82rez]

sorry hoff. 30 in 7 is scheduled as well.

if you overflew earlier in the 7 days then you cannot start an assignment that schedules you over 30, but can surely fly over it, just like the 8 hours.

 

[Erlanger]

It is legal to start, legal to finish. You can't be scheduled to exceed 8 hours in a day. You can actually exceed 8 hours if you have delays and such that affect it. It is a daily basis, not a leg by leg basis.

The key word here is "scheduled". So if you show up to start your day and before you start the first leg of the day, there is already delays that would put you over the 8 hrs, you still are legal to fly all originally scheduled flights. So the "legal to start, legal to finish" term is actually misleading.

 

[CA1900]

Oh, that 8-hour rule.... :0

Shows you were my mind is today!

 

[XJohXJ]

Yeah, me too. Looking at 48 or so to go right now.

Cheers!

 

[flyf15]

These rules also say that if the delay is out of the control of the company.

I don't see how sitting and waiting for numbers or rampers to be parked or anything like that can be considered "out of the control of the company" and thus not cause illegality if exceeding 8 hours.

 

[viper548]

Legal to start, legal to finish

Sadly, this is not the case with the other 8 hour rule

 

[dollacrackho]

well said viper, well said.
I just completely forgot what my point was viper said it all.

 

[n757st]

sorry hoff. 30 in 7 is scheduled as well.

if you overflew earlier in the 7 days then you cannot start an assignment that schedules you over 30, but can surely fly over it, just like the 8 hours.

Oops, must have been thinking the 16 hour duty rule.

 

[Andy Neill]

Oops, must have been thinking the 16 hour duty rule.

There is no such rule. There is an 8 hour minimum rest rule.

 

[Buzo]

There is no such rule. Ther is an 8 hour minimum rest rule.

There is a rule, it is called the Whitlow rule.

 

[Andy Neill]

There is a rule, it is called the Whitlow rule.

I think that you will find that the Whitlow letter was used by the FAA to enforce the existing 121.471 limits on crew rest rather than directly addressing max duty day. If you need at least 8 hours rest in the last 24, that will indeed dictate no more than 16 hours of duty but there is no such limit mentioned there or in the regs.

 

[CRJ puppy]

Dang...I thought this thread was on the 8 hr bottle to throttle rule...

oh well.....13.5 hrs to go!

 

[Sig]

I think that you will find that the Whitlow letter was used by the FAA to enforce the existing 121.471 limits on crew rest rather than directly addressing max duty day. If you need at least 8 hours rest in the last 24, that will indeed dictate no more than 16 hours of duty but there is no such limit mentioned there or in the regs.

Winner winner chicken dinner.

A litmus test for this reg is whether you can remain "on call" indefinitely as a reserve. You can, but you need the 24/7 consecutive rest or release for rest per lookback. Whitlow nailed the ATA to the wall with the lookback requirement, but we've moved into a weird world where "on call" and "duty" can get blurred. My airline's FOM fellates donkeys regarding the FARs on this issue. Somewhat of an aside, but still pertinent.

So overall, we have no such thing as a "max duty day" per the regulations; it is a notion put in check by minimum rest requirements.