757 declares emergency; gets jerked around by ATC

[WSurf]

Funny, I've never seen a PDT Dash in IAD. Guess you made that the last flight for them.

This was back when I flew for CommunistAir! Sorry, CommutAir!

 

[Captain X]

Yea! Coming out of IAD the controller didn't want to give us a heading we asked for around some serious weather. I was the FO and the NFP as we got closer to the weather and was denied three times my captain said 'Declare an emergency'! I declared it, and we turned........ The controller ask, "Flight#### what are you doing"?
My captain then piped in on the radio!!! Fixing a serious problem, now go and fix yours!!!!!!
The kicker, there was a AA 757 behind us!! Getting the same riff from the controller!! He declared the emergency also!!! The controller on the radio was a straight up dick!!

Declare, and do what you need to do!!!

Well said and indicative of a true Pilot In Command mentality!

"XXX needs 10 right for weather."

"XXX needs immediate deviation for weather."

"XXX on EMERGENCY DEVIATION for weather. Flying heading XXX°"

A few years back a UAL CA got a smack on the wrist (as did the controller) for a similar situation. I think UAL was departing ORD and needed to deviate around a cell. CA kept "unabling" headings but never declared. ATC finally said "Alright United we're going back to ORD."

 

[FLYLOW22]

Funny, I've never seen a PDT Dash in IAD. Guess you made that the last flight for them.

The PDT Dash used to go to IAD at one point in time...

 

[STL717]

STL controllers know how to accommodate emergency aircraft.

On a day with take-offs and landings on 30R and 30L a Lear had a hydraulic failure
(I believe) just after take-off and came back and landed on 12R. The whole operation just stopped until the Lear was on the ground.

Those STL controllers do a great job.

Just tell the controller what you’re doing and he needs to get everyone out of the way. “We’ll talk to you on the ground. Over!”

 

[sqwkvfr]

How far away from the airport was this aircraft when it declared it's emergency?

 

[Golden Falcon]

All flight crews have "emergency authority" granted to us by the FAR's, if it spoils the atc game plan, so be it..tough ******************** for them..

 

[JimNtexas]

I wonder if the AA pilots would have got more respect if they used the word "Mayday" rather than "declaring an emergency"? Legally they are the same, but 'Mayday' is I think more powerful.

And of course "declaring an emergency" is meaningless outside the United States, but that's another thread.

 

[Golden Falcon]

Yes over here we use the standard ICAO cal "panpan panpan panpan" and go about our business..."mayday" is reserved for dire situations ..the phrase "declaring an emergency" is not understood and fails to bring the full extent of the situation to the controller...when encountering severe weather inbound to KDTW many moos ago in the "Irish Concord", and failing to obtain a workable solution with ATC I simply broadcast "mayday mayday mayday ***1469 flying heading 150 to avoid weather" and did just that...a short telephone chat with the facility supervisor on the ground cleared up any misunderstanding.."aviate navigate communicate" basic airmanship isn't it? Remember ATC have a different agenda which from time to time is sure to clash with ours..but ours as flight deck crew is the FINAL authority..

 

[Oakum_Boy]

Americans have an aversion to the word Mayday. Also, Pan which is pronounced like the French word for bread isn't used often.

 

[Golden Falcon]

There is/was a publication out years back by a Continental captain on the differences between standard ICAO atc phraseology and the USA phraseology used by our atc probably the biggest headache for US pilots arriving overseas as expats is adjusting to the ICAO standard phraseology insisted upon (rightfully so) by airlines and ATC facilities alike.for safety reasons...but I diverge fromthe thread topic...

 

[KCPilot]

Come to BAB, we had a KC-135 on an IFE for a busted window and sent around for priority U-2 training. Gotta love the AF!

 

[CatfishVT9]

Was that the same guy who was told to go around for a B-52 with an engine failure and he shot back: "Ah yes, the dreaded 7 engine approach"?

 

[BigShotXJTdrvr]

We had a flight that had an uncommanded engine shutdown departing IAH last year, only about 10 minutes east of the airport when it happened. The IAH center controller wanted to give our crew box vectors until he could find a spot for them in the arrival flow. Couldn't believe it. True story.

 

[erj-145mech]

We had a flight that had an uncommanded engine shutdown departing IAH last year, only about 10 minutes east of the airport when it happened. The IAH center controller wanted to give our crew box vectors until he could find a spot for them in the arrival flow. Couldn't believe it. True story.

Did you declare an emergency? Or did you only report that you lost an engine? You must use the word emergency or mayday.

 

[BigMotorToter]

We all agree that the controller is a tool and should be fired.

And in regards to the AA pilot caving in, well yes he also could have re-evaluated the situation and realized that they could make the other runway, BUT just the fact that he declared an emergency and was denied his first request for 17C is even more of a reason to reject ATC's direction and put it down on 17C anyway. If anything to prove a point who the real boss was.

My opinion is though that the pilots of AA had their balls cut off a long time ago, and have forgotten what true Captains authority really is. If they want their balls back, I think I know where they are. There sitting in a jar on Bob Crandals desk.

 

[n757st]

Did you declare an emergency? Or did you only report that you lost an engine? You must use the word emergency or mayday.

I would give him enough credit that he said the words "Declaring an Emergency"...

 

[BigShotXJTdrvr]

Did you declare an emergency? Or did you only report that you lost an engine? You must use the word emergency or mayday.

Are you retarded? Of course they declared an emergency, multiple times when they started to get single engine vector holding. It was not my flight, I meant we as in my company. Some controllers just seem to be losing respect for the E-word.

 

[mynameisjim]

Some controllers just seem to be losing respect for the E-word.

Airplanes don't crash enough I guess. Or too many emergencies end successfully perhaps.

 

[bailey3083]

This is bad but if you know how busy DFW can get and there is a chance that the controller could see it would take longer to move everyone around so the AA could land then the time it would take to move around to land on 31R.
Also if they were in that bad of shape the FO should have said " We are declaring a fuel emergency..We have only 20 mins of fuel, 157 souls on board and need to land NOW!"

Bailey

 

[bubbers44]

Two days ago the pilot's report was published concerning the Aug. 31 incident. 20 minutes into the flight the low fuel warning light illuminated. They had 7000 in left, 1200 in right and 1300 in center. Fuel configuration was normal, crossfeed closed. They declared and emergency, opened crossfeed valve and shut off right fuel pumps. They landed with 7000 left and 1200 right, cleared the runway and shut down the right engine and had plane checked for fuel leaks. There were none. Planned landing fuel was 8600, actual was 8200. The cause of the imbalance was a faulty crossfeed valve that was open but didn't show open. Right fuel pumps had slightly more pressure than left causing imbalance. Fuel config light should have come on first but didn't. Looks to me like they handled it just fine. Too bad the controller didn't

 

[Beetle007]

Because the captain suspected a fuel leak, I think it would have been hard to tell ATC how much time they had remaining. The Air Transat A330 flight was leaking 28,680 lbs per hour + their normal fuel burn.