737 Type

[pilotman121]

Chrest Rockwell!

SWA does more on as PC than required on a type ride (3 extra Cat III approaches and an extra V1 cut at 300RVR)SWA has hired several pilots that did not have the type. Their proficiency check when they upgraded was a type ride. The only difference from someone with the type in their training was a DE or FAA inspector performing the upgrade check ride (SWA has a few DEs). That's the fact Jack! If SWA decided to drop the type tomorrow, nothing other than having a check airman that is a DE or have the FAA perform the ride would change.

Chrest Rockwell,You will never be able to figuare out the difference or you don't care!

 

[merlindrvr88]

Relax Skyline

merlindrvr88,

Hey man it is easy for you to have that attitude. It sounds like you have a good job. I am sure that your smug attitude would go away fast if you were out on the street with few options for employment. Have respect for yourself? And starve?? That isn't an option. You take the job that is given and hope a better one comes along. Outside of that there is little else any of us can do. Lots of jobs have lives in their hands, police, fire, doctors, school teachers, school bus drivers. Most don't get paid even close to what they are worth. Have some compassion, pull your head out and try to understand what it is like for the rest of us. You sound like a daddy's boy who never had to suffer out there in the shredder called aviation.

Skyline

You are right by saying I have a good job, and I thank the good lord for it every day. But I thought we were having a debate about paying for your training. A pilot will probably be laid off 3 or more times in his career, and I have been laid off twice already. So if you don't think I have paid my dues, well I am sorry I do not come up to your standards. I am looking for new jobs and side jobs daily, I have been doing this for 14 + years, so I think I might know how the industry works. If you want to buy your type, I completely understand. But why would an airline require a type? They never use too, and most still don't. But the most successful airline and the biggest discount airline requires a type, I wonder why that is? Probably because it saves them money. Good for them. The question was "is it pay for training?". I thought and still think it is. You think not and so do other guys, and that is your opinion, and I rspect it. But please don't insult me, and if you would like my career story, ask me. It is not pretty, like most pilots. We have all suffered, and I would like to turn the tides. Stop with the insults, and tell me why it is necessary to buy a type rating. I am open minded, and would love to hear your thoughts. But if you call me a daddy's boy who has never suffered, I just think you are hostile and uninformed. I would be happy to give you my background and I think you would change your mind if you heard my story. We are probably alot alike. It is not you against me. It is the pilots versus the companies.

 

[Skyline]

merlindrvr88

merlindrvr88 vbmenu_register("postmenu_792262", true);

Sorry if I came off a little strong. Your post seemed a little arrogant and like it came from someone who hasn't paid their dues.

On the early 60's my father was approached by UAL AA and a few others with the offer to be an airline pilot. He had just graduated from college with a aerospace engineering degree. His reply was that he only had a Private pilots license and they told him not to worry and that they would pay him to go to flight school and pay all the costs. He declined.

My point is that market conditions change. These days there are a flood of new pilots and the airlines can demand a lot. Just a few years ago most good companies only required 500 SIC to apply and to be competitive. Then it became 1000 hours of turbine time. Now it seems that they want 1000 of 121 turbine PIC. Next year it could be 121 jet PIC and pay for your own training. We all have to keep up with what the market will bare or else we are not competitive. I think pay will continue to side and in the future you can add, financially independent, to the list.

Again, sorry for the strong reply, but is is an issue that gets my attention since I was laid off.

Skyline

 

[Chest Rockwell]

Why require a type? You could ask the same question of why require an ATP or college degree. I know that it is not exactly apples to apples. If you want to debate that it is a B.S. requirement, there are very valid arguments for that point of view. But to say it is PFT with no facts to support that opinion makes no sense.

At one time, SWA did receive a discount on insurance since both pilots were typed, but that is no longer the case. The type requirement was intended to ensure that applicants "really wanted to work here". It is definitely flawed in that it eliminates those who cannot afford it and elevates those who simply have the $. Hopefully, the interview process would weed out undesireables in the latter group, but that process has its own flaws.

Grow up? I am just stating the facts. I have had just about every job that one can have at an airport. Daddy didn't pay for college or my type and I do quite a bit better than a used car salesperson (chicks do it too).

 

[flyin4pennies]

milehigh6080 said it best,

For us that went to college. When we made that decision to go, we knew that there was no gaurantee of employment but we still went. Lets face it, college isn't cheap. Hell I spent just as much on classes as I did on flight training if not more. It was an investment in our futures. A 737 type rating is an investment in your future, just as graduate classes are for management personel.

Paying for a type is not for me because SWA is not where I want to be. But if it was or I change my mind in the future, I would invest in my future if I had to.

 

[NEDude]

Relatively speaking, the type is much cheaper than it use to be. I think that you can get one for $7-8000. Much cheaper compared to 15 years ago when you were required to do bounces in the airplane. Have you ever rented an airplane for $53/minute? Types back then were around $10,000 when a typical regional Captain was making $30-40,000 a year.

The no credit/rich daddy arguement could be made for any flight training, college, etc.

I paid $6800 for mine. That included hotel and food costs as well.

Debate the PFT thing all you want, I would do it again in a heartbeat. I want SWA and am willing to play their game by their rules. On top of that, the type was one of the most enjoyable two weeks I have had in aviation.

 

[bombinha]

Hey Milehigh6080,
Maybe United States of America (thats the name of the country and not America as you refered) is fair to your eyes but in the rest of the world eyes that's about 6 billion (a little more than 330 million), USA it's not fair at all.
If you were born here you have your finite credit as you refer since you were born and was issued a SSN on your name. But if u move to USA with your family, because your airline (that use to be the second major in your country of origin) was bankruptcy due predatoy competition by some US carriers that are now incredibly in chapter 11 don't you think some legislation should stop this greedy CEO's from destroying the free world?
On my point of view free world is when you have options. When you se yourself in a point to sell or use your assets to get a job is no option.
But that's an opinion from someone who had been flying all over the world and for Americans the World is USA only.

 

[hoover]

One more time for the folks who still don't get it: Pay for training is where the candidate hands money to the employer to cover the cost for his training. A requirement to have a type rating to qualify for a job is NOT, repeat NOT pay for training. Any questions?

 

[hoover]

One more time for the folks who still don't get it: Pay for training is where the candidate hands money to the employer to cover the cost for his training. A requirement to have a type rating to qualify for a job is NOT, repeat NOT pay for training. Any questions?

 

[Skyline]

hoover

hoover,

Does a training contract count as pay for training?

Skyline

 

[Draginass]

One more time for the folks who still don't get it: Pay for training is where the candidate hands money to the employer to cover the cost for his training. A requirement to have a type rating to qualify for a job is NOT, repeat NOT pay for training. Any questions?

I get it plenty, hoover. You can polish the turd all you want, but it's still a turd.

 

[milehigh6080]

Hey Milehigh6080,
Maybe United States of America (thats the name of the country and not America as you refered) is fair to your eyes but in the rest of the world eyes that's about 6 billion (a little more than 330 million), USA it's not fair at all.
If you were born here you have your finite credit as you refer since you were born and was issued a SSN on your name.

Right, nobody in the USA really deserves to enjoy her benefits because, hell, all they did was win the sperm lottery and pop out in a hospital in the US rather than some less fortunate country. Jealous? I don't accept that premise at all. Any citizen of this country who works as a productive member of society, who votes, who serves in the miltary, who does anything at all to further the ideals that this country stands for deserves the credit and the rewards. Native citizens and immigrant citizens are not only deserving of the benefits of living here, but they are also deserve credit for keeping the country moving in the right direction. It's absolutely not perfect, we have more than our fair share of problems, but I'm certainly not moving somewhere else in the belief that there is a better place in the world to live. Rather than critizing and being jelous, maybe more countries should use the US as a model of how to do things- obviously our system works.

But if u move to USA with your family, because your airline (that use to be the second major in your country of origin) was bankruptcy due predatoy competition by some US carriers that are now incredibly in chapter 11 don't you think some legislation should stop this greedy CEO's from destroying the free world?

What a terrible place the USA is. The airline in your home country goes bankrupt and you are able to move here and find work. How awful. I always get a kick out of people who move to the US to find work because the economic system in their own country does not allow a business to profit and flourish, and then propose than the US adapt some of the same regulations that killed the business in their original country. Is this some kind of "share the misery" plan? No I do not think that there should be legislation that stops "greedy CEOs from destroying the free world." Legislation that stops them from doing that would destoy the free world on its own- you can't legislate and regulate freedom. You have to just let it be. You have the freedom to not work for a corporation that is run by a "greedy, manaical, evil CEO" and you also have the freedom to not purchase their products or services. If you don't like the way they do business, don't do business with them, they can't exist and thrive unless enough people are happy enough with their product and service to keep them in business.

On my point of view free world is when you have options.

So you support options, except when you don't. Regulations on businesses limit options too. Corporations are run by private citizens, they're owned by private citizens, their stock offerings benefit private citizens when they profit. You support options for whom? You can't support options and freedom at the same time that you're opposing it.

When you se yourself in a point to sell or use your assets to get a job is no option.

That is an option. It's not one that you like but it is an option. Capitalism does not offer unlimited security, it has never claimed to. Markets under capitalism change and grow very quickly, that's what makes it such an effective system. Placing regulations on it dilutes that process and may take away some of the uncertainty, but it also takes away some of the ability for the market to grow and adapt to something bigger and better. Every failed commuist and socialist system has learned the hard way that you can not regulate success- when you take away the freedom of a person to reach unlimited success then you take away some of their drive and motivation and the whole system slows down and grinds to a halt.

 

[pilotmiketx]

Torture the logic and parse as many words as you want, Dash. SW is essentially PAY FOR TRAINING. Geez, even a cheap ####-sucker like Connie Kalitta doesn't make you pay for your flight training.

Flying for Kalitta shows how low someone will go for a job.

And technically right now, SWA isn't requiring the type for an interview.