737 Type

[flybrowntails]

what about those that have a type and used it and then get on at sw. (pace, ryan, vacation express, proair, vanguard...usair...)

is is not a prereq. to have it? a requirement. if you don't have--too bad, keep keep'n on.

what about a BS/BA at most places it is required- is that then paying for a requirement.

(i should get on with what i have--boo hoo, i don't have a type, a degree, or any pic--it's not fair--i should be hired because i am really good--i mean it)

 

[landlover]

what about those that have a type and used it and then get on at sw. (pace, ryan, vacation express, proair, vanguard...usair...)

is is not a prereq. to have it? a requirement. if you don't have--too bad, keep keep'n on.

what about a BS/BA at most places it is required- is that then paying for a requirement.

(i should get on with what i have--boo hoo, i don't have a type, a degree, or any pic--it's not fair--i should be hired because i am really good--i mean it)

browntail, you just created PFR(Pay-for-Requirement) lets start the pages and pages of debates. Speaking of brown tail I need to meet some new brown tail.

Un Brugal mas, para me.

 

[flybrowntails]

he said tail.

 

[johnny taliban]

BROWN TAIL??? I used to have a subscription to that magazine!!

 

[Skyline]

The Company will pay

All you tuff guys will be on the side lines someday if you don't get over yourselves. We all pay and have to keep on paying throughout our careers. Today it might be a 737 type tomorrow it will be a type in a challenger. The company will not pay for it if they don't have to. Most SIC training is just a few hours short of a type. The company would never type unless they have to because it increases the likelihood of you leaving faster.

Why draw the line at a type? Perhaps you should have sat on the curb and insisted that United Airlines drive to your house to pick you up and pay for all your basic pilot licences and ratings? I mean that is what they did in the 60's. If you are going to compete then you need to come to the table with the same hand that everyone else has. Pay for your job. It is the future, it is today.

Skyline

 

[Draginass]

Torture the logic and parse as many words as you want, Dash. SW is essentially PAY FOR TRAINING. Geez, even a cheap ####-sucker like Connie Kalitta doesn't make you pay for your flight training.

Jeeze, SWA is not PFT. Once you're at class, you don't pay for a dang thing. What they do is simply have a prerequisite for getting hired/coming to class. Same as requiring an ATP and X number of PIC turbine hours. It's just a requirement. It just happens that most people applying at SWA weren't 737 captains elsewhere and don't want to spend the time to become 737 captains elsewhere. So they buy a type to meet SWA's requirements. Not PFT. Just getting qualified for the job.

 

[pilotman121]

Pay For Your Job!

Torture the logic and parse as many words as you want, Dash. SW is essentially PAY FOR TRAINING. Geez, even a cheap ####-sucker like Connie Kalitta doesn't make you pay for your flight training.

Pay for your own training,shows how low some pilots will go to get a job!

 

[Freight Dog]

If you are currently flying a 737, you can take your training records to your FSDO and get your type with SIC restriction on there for free.

I am being forced by the FAA to get a 737 Second in Command type rating.

Yes, you read this right. Second in command. And the FAA requires me to have it by next year. Anyone ever hear of this? I was doing fine without it. Never any problems. Suddenly I have to turn in my license and get redesignated. If I ride as a passenger shouln't I have a 27th in command type rating? I mean if the first 26 guys die I might need it.

And we wonder why the government is the crackerjack operation we have all come to enjoy. Unreal.

 

[Chest Rockwell]

Pay for your own training,shows how low some pilots will go to get a job!

So how does having a B737 type save SWA any training costs? If you say it is pay for training, who is getting paid?

 

[miles otoole]

I am being forced by the FAA to get a 737 Second in Command type rating.

Yes, you read this right. Second in command. And the FAA requires me to have it by next year. Anyone ever hear of this? I was doing fine without it. Never any problems. Suddenly I have to turn in my license and get redesignated. If I ride as a passenger shouln't I have a 27th in command type rating? I mean if the first 26 guys die I might need it.

And we wonder why the government is the crackerjack operation we have all come to enjoy. Unreal.

Waaaaaaa.....Move to Cuba if you don't like the rules. "I can't believe I have to pay silly federal and state taxes. I mean, what have they done for me?" STFD!

 

[merlindrvr88]

You are kidding, Right? If you come to school already typed in the aircraft, you have gotten rid of alot of their training costs, i.e. you paid for your own training. Why do you think corporate jobs want type ratings? The training of you is cheaper. Grow up and have some respect for yourself and your profession.

 

[Skyline]

Wake

Wake up man. Denial is unhealthy. Buying a type is life in the new millenium. We either pay with cash or with wasted years of our lives. I think that the best respect that you can give yourself by reducing the time it takes to get to a better job.

Skyline

 

[bombinha]

What about those who does have a lot of flight time experience but doesn't have the credit to buy the type rating do u think is fair to loose a job for a kid with no experience and a rich father who would pay for his type?

 

[Chest Rockwell]

You are kidding, Right? If you come to school already typed in the aircraft, you have gotten rid of alot of their training costs, i.e. you paid for your own training. Why do you think corporate jobs want type ratings? The training of you is cheaper. Grow up and have some respect for yourself and your profession.

Sounds logical but, SWA is doing the same training that it would if the type requirement went away tomorrow. Additionally, no currency is required. If you got the type 15 years ago and have not flown the B737 since, that is fine.

Again, having the type does not fulfill any training requirements at SWA.

 

[Chest Rockwell]

What about those who does have a lot of flight time experience but doesn't have the credit to buy the type rating do u think is fair to loose a job for a kid with no experience and a rich father who would pay for his type?

Relatively speaking, the type is much cheaper than it use to be. I think that you can get one for $7-8000. Much cheaper compared to 15 years ago when you were required to do bounces in the airplane. Have you ever rented an airplane for $53/minute? Types back then were around $10,000 when a typical regional Captain was making $30-40,000 a year.

The no credit/rich daddy arguement could be made for any flight training, college, etc.

 

[Skyline]

Rich Dad Poor Dad

What about those who does have a lot of flight time experience but doesn't have the credit to buy the type rating do u think is fair to loose a job for a kid with no experience and a rich father who would pay for his type?

Life isn't fair. There are guys who's dads are the chief pilots of Alaska Airlines and you know that they will get on. There are chicks whom we all know will have an advantage when its their turn. Minorities, air force war heroes, native Americans, they all have advantages. I don't fault anyone for using whatever they have in life to get ahead. I would of if I had the chance.

You got your ratings somehow. Most don't even get that chance.

Skyline

 

[milehigh6080]

What about those who does have a lot of flight time experience but doesn't have the credit to buy the type rating do u think is fair to loose a job for a kid with no experience and a rich father who would pay for his type?

I think that was English, so I'll give it a shot. I apologize in advance if I missed your point in the translation.

You don't have to like it or think that it's fair. We live in America, a free-market (sorta), capitalist country. In such an economy, capital is traded to obtain the goods and services that you want to obtain for your own consumption. We measure this capital in money, and those who play the game the best keep enough of it on hand to invest in opportunities that could increase their capital earning potential. Everyone has a finite amount of capital, and it's up to you to distribute it as you see fit. If you use all of your capital on too expensive of an apartment, boats, motorcycles and other non-essentials and you don't have enough of it left over to invest in yourself when there is an opportunity that will allow you to increase your potential to earn more capital, then that's your loss. These are all your choices, and only yours.

Stop whining about rich fathers, or not having money or credit or any other excuse that shifts the blame to someone else. You can either whine and watch opportunities pass you by, or you can hold yourself above that and just go make things happen. The men and women who founded this country and built it to what it is didn't do it by b1tching and moaning about the fact that they didn't have everything that they needed all the time- they innovated, invested some sweat equity and made it happen. I'm sick of this class warfare sh1t, it reminds me of children throwing a temper tantrum because they weren't given some toy that they wanted when they have a whole room full of toys that they don't play with anyway. If you want something, you go make it happen, whining and crying like a child isn't getting you anywhere.

There are something like 4,300 pilots at Southwest. Some of them were smart enough to invest their time into a growing airline that nobody thought could stand up to Braniff and American. It was a risk, they won. That happens sometimes, they could have just as easily lost. Some other pilots there saw the writing on the wall 10 years ago, or maybe even 5, 2, or 1 and they realized that SWA was heading in a direction that they'd like to go. Some of them had type ratings from the military or other airlines and applied. Others went and bought their type ratings with no guarantee that they'd be hired. They took a risk, and they were rewarded. Is everyone rewarded? Nope, that's not how it works. That's why it's called a risk. The reward wouldn't be worth a thing if it did pay off for everyone.

You ask is it fair? Yes, it is fair. It's fair because those are the people that SWA wanted to hire, and who are you to dictate their hiring preferences to them? If one day they decide that they only want to hire people who wear brown shoes to the interview, then so be it. It's their business and they'll thrive or fail on their own decisions. That's a risk that they take, and so far they've been rewarded with an outstanding, productive and motivated workforce. You are free to your opinion, but you're not free to tell SWA who they should and should not hire, and if you ever have your own company, SWA will surely reciprocate by not telling you how to do your own hiring.

 

[merlindrvr88]

Not True, but not worth arguing

Sounds logical but, SWA is doing the same training that it would if the type requirement went away tomorrow. Additionally, no currency is required. If you got the type 15 years ago and have not flown the B737 since, that is fine.

Again, having the type does not fulfill any training requirements at SWA.

Have you ever been typed? A type ride is more expensive than a proficiency ride. So when you come to SWA with a type, all they do is a proficiency ride. Call it an investment, say it is better than flight instructing, but whatever it is, we are only hurting ourselves. I agree it is better than flight instruction, and I understand. I have to say one thing. My friend is an emergency room surgeon, and he gets paid well for it. He has one life in his hands at a time. He always tells me that pilots should get much more, because they have alot more lives in their hands. We need to stop selling ourselves short. We have an important job. My boss pays me well because I take care of him and his family. I am professional and respectful, and I do nothing stupid. They pay me well, and I make more than most overseas captains. And that is criminal. But you guys are so happy to fly, you will take anything, and that is the problem. So take your used car salesman pay, but you should grow up. Have some respect.

 

[Skyline]

merlindrvr88

merlindrvr88,

Hey man it is easy for you to have that attitude. It sounds like you have a good job. I am sure that your smug attitude would go away fast if you were out on the street with few options for employment. Have respect for yourself? And starve?? That isn't an option. You take the job that is given and hope a better one comes along. Outside of that there is little else any of us can do. Lots of jobs have lives in their hands, police, fire, doctors, school teachers, school bus drivers. Most don't get paid even close to what they are worth. Have some compassion, pull your head out and try to understand what it is like for the rest of us. You sound like a daddy's boy who never had to suffer out there in the shredder called aviation.

Skyline

 

[Chest Rockwell]

Have you ever been typed? A type ride is more expensive than a proficiency ride. So when you come to SWA with a type, all they do is a proficiency ride. Call it an investment, say it is better than flight instructing, but whatever it is, we are only hurting ourselves. I agree it is better than flight instruction, and I understand. I have to say one thing. My friend is an emergency room surgeon, and he gets paid well for it. He has one life in his hands at a time. He always tells me that pilots should get much more, because they have alot more lives in their hands. We need to stop selling ourselves short. We have an important job. My boss pays me well because I take care of him and his family. I am professional and respectful, and I do nothing stupid. They pay me well, and I make more than most overseas captains. And that is criminal. But you guys are so happy to fly, you will take anything, and that is the problem. So take your used car salesman pay, but you should grow up. Have some respect.

SWA does more on as PC than required on a type ride (3 extra Cat III approaches and an extra V1 cut at 300RVR)SWA has hired several pilots that did not have the type. Their proficiency check when they upgraded was a type ride. The only difference from someone with the type in their training was a DE or FAA inspector performing the upgrade check ride (SWA has a few DEs). That's the fact Jack! If SWA decided to drop the type tomorrow, nothing other than having a check airman that is a DE or have the FAA perform the ride would change.