737 replacement!!!

[islandhoper]

Boeing to finally announce a 737 replacement.
It should be a twin isle aircraft for 180 to 220 or so.
Read more on it at aviationnews.net
It should be officialy announced at the Paris airshow...

 

[waveflyer]

http://atwonline.com/aircraft-engin...37-replacement-will-be-announce?cid=nl_atw_dn

ATW HOME » AIRCRAFT / ENGINES / COMPONENTS » Boeing focusing on twin-aisle concept for 737 replacement; will be announced by Paris Air Show
Boeing focusing on twin-aisle concept for 737 replacement; will be announced by Paris Air Show

By Geoffrey Thomas | March 7, 2011

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Courtesy, McDonnell Douglas.

*****

Boeing is moving "far more aggressively" toward a 180-250 seat twin-aisle replacement for the 737, according to company insiders. It would continue production of the 737-800/900ER for airlines that still want the standard offering.

VP-Advanced 737 Product Development Mike Bair confirmed last week that a twin-aisle has been canvassed, a scenario first revealed by ATW in 2006 (ATW, June 2006). Separately, ATW has learned that Boeing will announce an all-new 737 replacement, to be named the 797, at or before the Paris Air Show commencing June 20. Bair’s comments regarding the replacement being a twin-aisle, which have not been denied by the company, came in an interview with Flightglobal.



MD F-100. Photo: Courtesy, McDonnell Douglas.

*****

The 180-seat twin-aisle concept has a fair amount of history. McDonnell Douglas developed a 180-seat twin-aisle concept in a 2-2-2 configuration in the early 1980s dubbed the DC-11. Delta Air Lines wanted to order 60 but MDC balked at the commitment, considering it too risky given the lack of interest from another US airline. The fuselage had a cross-section that was 22 in. wider than the 727/757, allowing for 17.7-in.-wide seats in doubles with two 18-in. aisles. In an all-economy layout at a 30-in. pitch, it could seat 214.

Using the latest technology at the time, including composite floor beams, control surfaces, nacelles, vertical and horizontal stabilizers and other primary structures, MDC predicted fuel consumption 10% better than the 757 with the same engine application—the JT10D-32 engine rated at 32,000 lb. thrust.

Boeing also floated the twin-aisle 180-seat concept in 1987—the year that Airbus rolled out its A320--with its 7J7 and showed a full cabin mockup at that year's Paris Air Show. It took the widebody concept further with a 181-in. cabin width that would permit 2-3-2 seating, 17-in.-wide seats and 18-in. aisles in coach. It is this cross-section that insiders at Boeing tell ATW the company is focused on.

The twin-aisle idea surfaced again in 2001 in two patents filed by Boeing under the heading "Twin-Aisle Small Airplane," with Mithra Sankrithi, a manager in Commercial Airplanes' product development, configuration and engineering analysis group, named as the inventor. The patents were submitted on Oct. 2, 2001, and approved in 2003 and 2004. One cabin sports a 2-3-2 configuration with Sankrithi claiming the new configuration could deliver "the comfort typically reserved for larger aircraft," while at the same time minimizing drag, weight penalties, fuel burn and "economic penalties." The fuselage cross-section for the 2-3-2 configuration is 200.7 in., fractionally wider than the 767's 198.03 in., and the design features a swept T-tail.

Interestingly, Sankrithi filed another patent last year with co-engineer Kevin Retz with the same T-tail twin-aisle under wing engine layout, which is similar to the configuration and layout of another McDonnell Douglas aircraft: The 1981 vintage 150-seat MDF100, which was to be built with Fokker on a 50/50 basis but didn't get off the drawing board.

 

[waveflyer]

The comment was made- I don't see how this is a 737 replacement - a 757 replacement yes- but w/180-220 seats how is that a -700 replacement??

Interesting idea though

 

[waveflyer]

The comment was made- I don't see how this is a 737 replacement - a 757 replacement yes- but w/180-220 seats how is that a -700 replacement??

Interesting idea though

 

[jonjuan]

The comment was made- I don't see how this is a 737 replacement - a 757 replacement yes- but w/180-220 seats how is that a -700 replacement??

Interesting idea though

Agreed. That will leave a gap in. 120-180 seat range. Will BA address that or will wn take a closer look at bombardier?

 

[LearLove]

I agree with the above. If it is true that the 737 replacement will be in the 180+ seat range then they (Boeing) have left the 100-150 seat market to Emb/Cndair/Sukohi/Mitsu.

Maybe the airline upper management got to Boeing and said, "hey abandon that market then let emb and company build the smaller jets so we can label them "express" and outsource the 100-150 seat range" - I wouldn't put it past them.

 

[johnsonrod]

SWA - stay away from the design process PLEASE!!!!!!

Don't let SWA near the Boeing team in Paris unless you want to keep that dated 737 overhead panel... Thanks Herb!

 

[jws717]

I would assume Boeing is keeping plans on the 100 to 150 passenger market behind closed doors until Airbus commits to an A320 upgrade or replacement.

 

[jonjuan]

I would assume Boeing is keeping plans on the 100 to 150 passenger market behind closed doors until Airbus commits to an A320 upgrade or replacement.

Or maybe after they ever figure out the 787 disaster.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

or maybe Boeing is going to give that to the C-Series.......

 

[Quimby]

Don't let SWA near the Boeing team in Paris unless you want to keep that dated 737 overhead panel... Thanks Herb!

How much 737 time do you have?

 

[WalterSobchak]

Well, the 757's are getting pretty old.

Either Boeing sees the market shifting toward slightly higher capacity airframes with the operating costs of current 100-150 seat aircraft...or, they're considering conceding that market to Bombardier's and Embraer's of the world. I suppose they could offer a smaller variant at 140-150 seats...but, if the performance/costs are similar to/better than the 137-seat B73G with a higher capacity, why not just roll with the 200-seater?

Either way, imagine SWA's turn times if they had a twin-aisle with a 2-2-2 configuration and ample overhead bin storage. The slowest part is always the self-loading cargo.

 

[StopNTSing]

I agree with the above. If it is true that the 737 replacement will be in the 180+ seat range then they (Boeing) have left the 100-150 seat market to Emb/Cndair/Sukohi/Mitsu.

Maybe the airline upper management got to Boeing and said, "hey abandon that market then let emb and company build the smaller jets so we can label them "express" and outsource the 100-150 seat range" - I wouldn't put it past them.

Spot on.....unfortunately. :crying:

 

[On Your Six]

Let's just hope that Southwest doesn't get to give their opinions on the new flight deck. Guess what boys? Next Generation DOESN'T mean switches and knobs. Thanks for ruining it for everyone else on the "older" Next Generation 737-700s and -800s.


OYS

 

[Green Banana]

http://www.airlinereporter.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/737X-3_AK.jpg

 

[Mr.B]

http://www.airlinereporter.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/737X-3_AK.jpg

OK, who/what is that exactly on the tail?

 

[johnsonrod]

How much 737 time do you have?

80,000 hours. How much Space Shuttle time do you have dumba$$? I jumpseat on 737s all the time and they are ARCHAIC vs. the Airbus line and now newer aircraft like the E190 and soon-to-be C-Series. I know several 737NG pilots and they all say the systems are beyond basic. Nobody will dispute that the 737 program was set back by SWA and their demands. Sad but true.

 

[waveflyer]

Yeah- Swa has really held Boeing back. Bc it's all about the technology.... Not making money... SW has bought over 500 737s and the 73 is the most prolific airliner in the world. I think it survived us...

The kids call you "haters"
I take it as a compliment

 

[Quimby]

80,000 hours. How much Space Shuttle time do you have dumba$$? I jumpseat on 737s all the time and they are ARCHAIC vs. the Airbus line and now newer aircraft like the E190 and soon-to-be C-Series. I know several 737NG pilots and they all say the systems are beyond basic. Nobody will dispute that the 737 program was set back by SWA and their demands. Sad but true.

Now, now. No need to call names. It was just a simple question.

Your lack of maturity is shining through.

Grow up.

It appears that Boeing is not having any problems selling NG's these days. I believe I read they just upped the production rate by a few more per month. That old, archaic airplane program seems to be doing just fine.

 

[johnsonrod]

Now, now. No need to call names. It was just a simple question.

Your lack of maturity is shining through.

Grow up.

It appears that Boeing is not having any problems selling NG's these days. I believe I read they just upped the production rate by a few more per month. That old, archaic airplane program seems to be doing just fine.

Gee, thanks for the advice Dad. It is well documented that SWA had a big say in the cockpit design of the 737NG. Honda Accords sell well too but I don't have a burning desire to drive one. You might be happy driving a basic Accord or an old Ford Taurus but I am not. The people I know who fly it aren't that impressed regardless of what the airline accountants say... Thanks for the 737 program sales update.

 

[ATRCA]

The 737 sux!!

This is a welcome replacement. Lets hope they (Boeing) don't take the 787 path to certification and outsourcing this time.

 

[AK737FO]

The face on the tail is that of an Eskimo. I fly native folks to / from the arctic every week who look just like that. Some of them have the most amazing seal skin coats with arctic fox ruffs - beautiful hand made clothing. It is a very cool culture (no pun intended) and some of the toughest people on the planet.

As to the scarebus vs Boeing debate. We had a bad wind event in SIT a few years ago. The crew dinged both wingtips. The data study after the fact showed a wind event that was beyond the abilities of the scarebus, but the Boeing, being just an extention of the human at the controls, made it through. Considering where I fly every month, I'll stick to the Boeing. Just sayin...

 

[LandGreen]

As to the scarebus vs Boeing debate. We had a bad wind event in SIT a few years ago. The crew dinged both wingtips. The data study after the fact showed a wind event that was beyond the abilities of the scarebus, but the Boeing, being just an extention of the human at the controls, made it through. Considering where I fly every month, I'll stick to the Boeing. Just sayin...[/QUOTE]

Hi Ak,

Just curious about your take here. Could you plz provide some facts for us? For example, was the xwind in SIT greater than 33 gusting 38? Was it onshore or coming over the top of that huge mountain? Wet runway? Visibility? Usable length less than 6500, right? Were they on fire or critical fuel?

Considering the challenges associated with SIT, and if conditions were at or worse than those described above, I am not sure you would find a smart pilot(s) who would land a Boeing or Airbus!

As far as the Boeing vs Airbus debate: How much time in 737? How much time in A320 do you have?

 

[ImbracableCrunk]

I like flying the NG, too but come on, the overhead panel is rotten. Little rubber tips? Yeah, thanks, that really helps to see switch positions.

I think instead of 737NG, they should have called it 737CSYB - Classic's Slightly Younger Brother.

If Boeing had just done the real upgrade program, maybe now they'd have more market share overall. But you can't piss off your biggest customer. Maybe they should have run two lines with the NG for SWA and the "NG-Adv" for the rest of us.

MMmmm. NGAdv. . . . Auto-throttles for SE, push-button overhead, quiet nose. . .

 

[ackattacker]

Gee, thanks for the advice Dad. It is well documented that SWA had a big say in the cockpit design of the 737NG. Honda Accords sell well too but I don't have a burning desire to drive one. You might be happy driving a basic Accord or an old Ford Taurus but I am not. The people I know who fly it aren't that impressed regardless of what the airline accountants say... Thanks for the 737 program sales update.

And if there's one person in the world the entire multi-billion dollar aircraft industry is trying to please, it is you, the pilot.

See what happens, is that after all the beans are counted, after all the performance charts are crunched, after all the customers are surveyed, the last step in the chain is you. The management team makes their recommendation, to which you pronounce, "nah, not feeling the Fahrvenugen here. The switches are so 90's. And who chose this color scheme?" Crestfallen, they return to the drawing board to try again.

 

[Quimby]

And if there's one person in the world the entire multi-billion dollar aircraft industry is trying to please, it is you, the pilot.

See what happens, is that after all the beans are counted, after all the performance charts are crunched, after all the customers are surveyed, the last step in the chain is you. The management team makes their recommendation, to which you pronounce, "nah, not feeling the Fahrvenugen here. The switches are so 90's. And who chose this color scheme?" Crestfallen, they return to the drawing board to try again.

You're exactly right. JR doesn't apparently doesn't understand this though. I'm sure he'd change his change his tune if Delta hired him and stuck him in the NG.

 

[BrickTop]

Boeing to finally announce a 737 replacement.
It should be a twin isle aircraft for 180 to 220 or so.
Read more on it at aviationnews.net
It should be officialy announced at the Paris airshow...

And made from plastic...............

 

[johnsonrod]

You're exactly right. JR doesn't apparently doesn't understand this though. I'm sure he'd change his change his tune if Delta hired him and stuck him in the NG.

Thanks for enlightening me Dad.

 

[eaglesview]

Will Boeing come into the 21st century and actually build an airplane without a yoke?