717 landing lights question

[PhatAJ2008]

Anyone know why the 717 (and basically all other MD's) have so many recognition lights? Also wondered why more planes don't have them on the wing tips?

 

[humveedriver]

Does it have more? the logo lights are also on the wing tips, so thats sorta goofy. There are ground flood lights. Presumedly for operations into less well equipped airports (smaller). There are also wing and nacelle floodlights that are supposed to be for checking icing conditions. Everything else is standard stuff. It does light up well crossing a runway ;-) The logo lights also do a good job of showing how much oil is vaporized out of the breather on the engines at night.

 

[aa73]

On an AA MD80 right now. Took off from DFW at night. On takeoff,

No ground flood lights used.
No wing/nacelle lights used.
No wing landing lights used.

The ONLY light used for takeoff was the nose light. After the gear came up, totally dark aircraft.

Why? and how do pilots forgot to turn on their lights?

 

[PhatAJ2008]

I guess the nose gear light would be only one they could notice without looking at switches?? I guess they're not following the checklist!! Do other planes have as many ground flood lights? I guess this makes sense on the MD and DC as they were designed to go into less serviceable airports...

 

[aa73]

Phat,

AA does not have a clearly defined checklist procedure for exterior lights on the MD80 series. The flood/wing/nacelle lights are all F/O discretion.

Furthermore, AA in past years has discouraged CAs from using the wingtip landing lights to save fuel, bulbs, and vibrations when extended. Becasue of that, many old school CAs have never incorporated those landing lights in their flows when cleared for t/o or landing. The last item on the before t.o checklist is "Nose Lights Bright." No mention of wing landing lights.

As a result, we have a very nonstandardized exterior light policy on the MD80s.
​

 

[XTW]

Phat,

Becasue of that, many old school "Native" CAs have never incorporated those landing lights in their flows when cleared for t/o or landing. The last item on the before t.o checklist is "Nose Lights Bright." No mention of wing landing lights.

​

JP,

There you go, I fixed it for 'ya.

X

 

[glasspilot1]

JP,

There you go, I fixed it for 'ya.

X

XTW, you beat me to it! I retired off the MD-80 and always used all lights in the terminal area. What are they there for? Some guys commented on the slight vibration as the wingtip floods were deployed. I just got used to it!

And it was automatic: "Cleared for T/O" means light it up!

 

[aa73]

Hey Fellas,

Thanks for the input. (ps XTW, LOL!!) I just got off the phone with our Md80 Fleet CA who is an ex TW type and a heck of a guy, prob one of the best Fleet CAs we have ever had on the -80. I mentioned the problem to him... he is looking into it. All aircraft should be lit up, day or night, during T/O and Landing, as well as crossing runways. Problem is, it's never been standard here at AA - only optional - so pilots are not used to doing it. In fact they tend to bitch anytime they are behind another airline who lights up when taking the runway... I'm telling them, are you crazy?? that could very well save your bacon some day!

 

[glasspilot1]

Problem is, it's never been standard here at AA - only optional - so pilots are not used to doing it.

We had a concept at TWA called "Be aggressively safe". The idea was the Captain, F/O and S/O should use common sense to always be thinking; how can I make this flight even safer? No matter how good your training program is, not every little thing can be written down in procedure. That's why we were getting paid the "big bucks". (Ok, no laughing at that last sentence!)

 

[JT12345]

I guess the nose gear light would be only one they could notice without looking at switches?? I guess they're not following the checklist!!

You guessed wrong... it is not on a checklist.

At this level things like this are left up to recommendations in the book and common sense.

We also don't have shutting down the engines on our checklist. I guess they assume we can hear. We pass a medical examine every year to prove that. Common sense for me is listening during the walk around and while leaving the airplane just in case we missed it something whining... besides the FA

 

[PhatAJ2008]

I would think "common sense" would include using every available means to help other aircraft and their crew to see you, especially at night. But what do I know about that "level."

 

[JT12345]

But what do I know about that "level."

If you have never flown tired then probably nothing. Take your aviation idealistic world and go @#$%@$#@@#$%#@.

Do you think anyone on the majors board cares about a pilot forgetting a few lights? Go back to the board u came from. Between the dynamics of this industry and the lifestyle of a pilot trying to raise a family being tired or occupied and forgetting a few lights is the least of our concerns. And the concerns of the pax is saving an extra 10 bucks on their ticket, and that their glass was filled to the top by our FA. Airfares are four times cheaper than twenty years ago and they don't even know it.

It is not missed often enough to be a problem and less so when it really matters I bet. And some even have the history of why they might have left them off at their airline, so get over it.

But where was that accident at night when one airplane landed on another, so you are right. Was it San Fan or DC? blah blah blah

So these newbies show up to the real world and glare all their lights on shining down the runway when "cleared into position and hold" as it use to be called or "line up and wait" today scarring everyone from crossing the runway when cleared to by ATC cause they think with the other aircrafts lights on they are about to start their takeoff roll.

Enough with my rants and your grandstanding. We should all strive to be safer.

_______________

Why they designed the landing light to hang out and create drag nowadays is beyond me. Does not help when u lose an engine, so they added that if the airplane senses an engine failure the landing lights retract. U would thing they could have integrated them somewhere else streamlined into the design. To expensive to change I guess. I don't like them. Why have them working against u when you lose an engine during takeoff, but it is ok because they are suppose to retract. If the gear fails down during a V1 cut, hey it was our day, but because of a friggin couple of lights to bang it on the ground... GMAFB.

 

[tankerhead]

Wheeeeeeeew! You need a beer and some trim. Take it easy, Sean Penn.

 

[ron burgundy]

On an AA MD80 right now. Took off from DFW at night. On takeoff,

No ground flood lights used.
No wing/nacelle lights used.
No wing landing lights used.

The ONLY light used for takeoff was the nose light. After the gear came up, totally dark aircraft.

Why? and how do pilots forgot to turn on their lights?

>cause I dont want to see what i am about to hit>

 

[ron burgundy]

PVT Pilot reply.....seemed to be fitting. Somewhat accurate.