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I heard from a very good source that B19 got pulled over at a traffic stop and was wearing ladies clothing and was down in meat packing district looking for the blue oyster bar.

Gosh I hope its not true but you know how there is always some truth to this stuff....
 
7777 said:
I have been told that. My friends agree. I have no reason not to agree if they say it is so.

How flexible is the union going to be in this type of economy? What is going to be done to help both the company and the pilots? I know this is a broad question, but I look at what the UAW and management has done to the automakers and it is no surprise they are begging for money from me and you, the taxpayers, just to stay in business.

I don't know enough about NetJets to know how or if their union is any different. GM was the big boy on the block. United was the big boy on the block. NetJets IS the big boy on the block....now. You see my concern?

THAT is why I try and gleen as much information off these boards as possible. Intelligent, informative posts (B19, X-rated, ect.) by people working in these jobs/industry help me in my decision making process.

Having to wade through grade school insults to get to the substance in EVERY thread about this stuff is tiresome.
Click to expand...

7777,

You are comparing apples to oranges. The UAW is entirely different from NJASAP. NJASAP hasn't negotiated a way for pilots to sit at home for years on end and receive 90% of our base salary. Nor has the company even approached us yet about any kind of concessions. Nor are we making an inordinate amount of money based on what our product costs.

The automakers basically build cars for average Joe American. What NJ's (and the other fracs) provide is a LUXURY service. In other words, it's something pretty much everyone can do without. If they want it, then paying top dollar for it shouldn't be a problem (as long as they're getting the value for the money), and that includes paying a professional salary. And the folks who can afford this type of luxury service aren't likely to dump the product at the first sign of trouble in the economy, unlike the average car buyer or airline ticket purchaser.

Furthermore, the UAW, as well as the typical airline union, tend to maintain a very adversarial relationship, where it'll be a cold day in hell before one side does anything to help the other. It's not like that at NJA. Sure, we did what we had to when it was time to work for our 2005 contract, but generally we are working in partnership with NJ's to help out as much as we can in these tough economic times. We fill out waste reports anytime we see waste happening on the road that could be avoided. We send suggestions on a dedicated link when we think up other ways to improve operations at NJ's. Our union committees are constantly working WITH the company to improve all areas in efficiency and effectiveness, from training to crew meals to controlling hotel costs while maintaining quality to scheduling and so on and so forth.

Now, having said all that, I will also step up and openly admit that even the mighty NJ's isn't immune from this truly awful economy. Things have gotten bad enough that even the wealthy are hunkering down. My personal prediction is that if things stay this slow much longer, then by the end of summer we may be looking at furloughs too. I hope I'm wrong. Time will tell.

But so far our union has been effective in helping the company during these tough times. I hope that answers your question of how quickly our union will react when the company needs help.

As for B19, you'd really need to go back through thousands of posts to see that his arguments aren't intelligent, just repetitive. I've ceased arguing with him because it's like playing raquetball against the curtains. He makes statements against unions, and cites examples. But when you take apart his arguments and ask him to explain, he moves on to another topic, or just repeats what he previously said.

Here's just one example: B19 has, in the past, as well as now, always complained that when times are tough for a company that unions refuse to consider changes to their contract without a fight, sometimes dooming a company to bankruptcy or extinction. I have countered his argument with the question of why should the workers alter their contracts when management almost never changes theirs? A worker making $65K/year should take a pay cut while the CEO still goes home with millions in salary and bonuses? Why should management's contracts be honored, but the workers' should not? And to this day, B19 has not answered that question at all. Why? Because there is no ethical answer he can give. In other words, his arguments are bogus and he knows it. And instead of even TRYING to answer me (these are points I brought up with him over a year ago), he just continued to repeat the same old anti-union crap.

So you need to see his history on these boards to know that his arguments are NOT intelligent, no matter how well he types.

He has since been on my ignore list, and these threads have had far more coherence without him (when I weed past the folks who keep wasting their time responding to him these days).
 
Thats the sie of it Reality.

I spent a little time trying to reason with 19 ... and then put him on ignore a long time ago. Unfortunately, a lot of people keep quotinghim and you can read the quotes even if he is on ignore.

I really wish people would put him on ignore instead of responding with taunts that admittedly make US look bad to someone who was not reading the board long enough ago to see the history.
 
fischman said:
In my memory (which might be flawed) I have only called B19 1 bad name, and that was "liar." Feel free to prove me wrong (Something B19 hasn't been able to do yet ;) ).
Click to expand...

I have no interest in trying to prove you wrong, and I could have easily overlooked the posts you mention. But, the vast majority of B19 rebuttals are immature and in poor taste. IHMO, such posts leave an unbiased reader with a poor opinion of the poster and maybe unions in general. For example: http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?p=1742152#post1742152 . (At least he/she could learn how to spell Nazi)

Or, the repetive posts from our esteemed brother Semore, who is capable of doing a lot better.

Anyway, my opinion doesn't count for a whole lot because I've had my fun with frac flying and need to get back to the family business sometime this year.
 
Last edited:
If B is who some think he is, his motives for posting this is questionable.
Maybe I should post that a certain CEO of a fruit shaped computer company is going to die, all the while shorting his stock. That would be frowned upon. Or could it be criminal? :confused: You decide.
But if it turns out he is who some think he is, this rumor is dirty, and what he is doing should cause him to be banned.
And his boat sunk!:p:D
 
B19 Flyer said:
What is this I hear about the possibility of as many as 50 NJ aircraft being parked? Yes, it's a rumor, but for me it comes from a worthy source. Oh, and for what it's worth... I hope it is not true.
Click to expand...

Actually there could be 50 parked at PBI alone.....so many rich Jews have lost everything to Madoff. No that's not racist, it's just the truth...
 
fischman said:
I'm entirely too lazy to go through the nearly 1000 posts I have made to find it.

B19 and I have done a good deal of sparring, but I haven't for a while because he hasn't brought anything new to the table for weeks. It was getting boring going over the same debate with him. It was beating a dead horse in an extreme manner.

If you search all of my posts, and go back a couple of months, you'll find some threads.

You'll also find B19 calling people (NJW) idiots.

Actually, NJW is the one that used that word on a post by post basis. She was offensive and had no clue as to what the industry was about.

You might find B19 telling folks to "shut up and get back to work."

Interesting, that I don't remember but in 1000 plus posts in 3 years it's possible, but not my style.

It isn't one sided all. B19 has shown his true colors as well.

In my memory (which might be flawed) I have only called B19 1 bad name, and that was "liar." Feel free to prove me wrong (Something B19 hasn't been able to do yet ;) ).

You have yet to prove to me that you are right either.
Click to expand...
.......................
 
Direct question

B-
Do you work in a management position for the competition of NJA?

If so, what you are doing with this post is highly questionable.
 
F/O said:
Actually there could be 50 parked at PBI alone.....so many rich Jews have lost everything to Madoff. No that's not racist, it's just the truth...
Click to expand...

Uh, yes it is. The fact that you had to qualify it with "no that's not racist" tells me you really think it is.

How about: So many rich people in PBI have lost everything to Madoff.

They weren't all Jews. And they weren't all individuals either. Lots of charitable organizations and such in the mix too.

Yes, he had many Jewish clients. He also had quite a few clients who weren't Jewish. Your relating parked business aircraft in PBI to Jewish folks who lost money to Madoff definitely smacks of anti-semitism.
 
Fozzy said:
B-
Do you work in a management position for the competition of NJA?

If so, what you are doing with this post is highly questionable.
Click to expand...

19 you are posting on other threads. How about you stop ignoring this simple question........
 
like the BBJ?

Proven wrong again!
 
fischman said:
Here ya go B19. Did you want me to post all the times you called NJW an idiot?


http://forums.flightinfo.com/showpost.php?p=1706319&postcount=92

Proved you wrong. Again.
Click to expand...

No you are wrong. You misquoted me. You accused me of stating, "You might find B19 telling folks to "shut up and get back to work."

That isn't what that post stated. That posted stated directly, "Do your job and shut up." No reference that about getting back to work, and that is a major difference.

The post is about all the whining that you and other union members do on this board. You're such a bunch of whiners.

If you are going to post my opinions for me, at least get them right!
 
fischman said:
like the BBJ?

Proven wrong again!
Click to expand...

BBJ is a nice airplane but carries less than 300 passengers. So yes, it's small and can 't do what the fleet that I'm involved with can. You seem to forget that a great percentage of my career was with a legacy carrier, and the equivelent of a 737 would have been entry level.
 
B19 Flyer said:
No you are wrong. You misquoted me. You accused me of stating, "You might find B19 telling folks to "shut up and get back to work."

That isn't what that post stated. That posted stated directly, "Do your job and shut up." No reference that about getting back to work, and that is a major difference.

The post is about all the whining that you and other union members do on this board. You're such a bunch of whiners.

If you are going to post my opinions for me, at least get them right!
Click to expand...

That is semantics, and the intent of your point is the same.
 
B19 Flyer said:
BBJ is a nice airplane but carries less than 300 passengers. So yes, it's small and can 't do what the fleet that I'm involved with can. You seem to forget that a great percentage of my career was with a legacy carrier, and the equivelent of a 737 would have been entry level.
Click to expand...
Remind me how many the Piaggio seats again?
 
B19 Flyer said:
BBJ is a nice airplane but carries less than 300 passengers. So yes, it's small and can 't do what the fleet that I'm involved with can. You seem to forget that a great percentage of my career was with a legacy carrier, and the equivelent of a 737 would have been entry level.
Click to expand...

The BBJ and 737, although have the same type rating, are different airplanes.

The BBJ is a global aircraft, where the 737 is a continental plane.
 
fischman said:
The BBJ and 737, although have the same type rating, are different airplanes.

The BBJ is a global aircraft, where the 737 is a continental plane.
Click to expand...

Understood. But still small by what I am currently involved with. I didn't make this choice, it just happened, but the BBJ is small in comparison, though big by NJ standards.
 
fischman said:
That is semantics, and the intent of your point is the same.
Click to expand...

No it's not. Your statement puts words into it that I didn't state and implies that they are not working.

My statement implies that you have a job to do, just do it and stop whining. Be fortunate you have a job.

Apples and oranges, your perception is why you need a union or your mother to speak for you.
 
B19 Flyer said:
No it's not. Your statement puts words into it that I didn't state and implies that they are not working.

My statement implies that you have a job to do, just do it and stop whining. Be fortunate you have a job.

Apples and oranges, your perception is why you need a union or your mother to speak for you.
Click to expand...
Whatever dude. I'm not going to argue semantics. I see it as the same thing.
 

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