50 Aircraft?

[transpac]

Well, I'm obviously on the union side, having paid dues and reaped benefits the past eight years. My only concern with the NJ union is that they might have seriously injured the golden goose by demanding too much too soon. OTOH, I've gotta agree with 7777 that B19 comes across as an intelligent adult while most of the responses to him are juvenile and silly.

 

[gunfyter]

We left a lot of money on the table....

 

[Pervis]

Transpac, consider the big difference. A plane load of Legacy pax pay an average of a couple hundred per ticket. One of our owners pay $5 million for 1/4 share, and lots every month for hourly and monthly managemnt fees. Now, who can afford to pay their pilots six figures? We didn't get too much too soon. They held off that raise for over 4 years. That's hundreds of millions they banked. And after they started paying us well, profits soared.

 

[o2bflyn]

Transpac, consider the big difference. A plane load of Legacy pax pay an average of a couple hundred per ticket. One of our owners pay $5 million for 1/4 share, and lots every month for hourly and monthly managemnt fees. Now, who can afford to pay their pilots six figures? We didn't get too much too soon. They held off that raise for over 4 years. That's hundreds of millions they banked. And after they started paying us well, profits soared.

Correct me if I am wrong.....and I might be because I don't know the contract, but wasn't there some reto pay involved? I am sure they tried to keep it all, but most new contracts carry a reto pay close that goes back to the end of the previous contract.

 

[o2bflyn]

OTOH, I've gotta agree with 7777 that B19 comes across as an intelligent adult while most of the responses to him are juvenile and silly.

I will offer this......


You can be well spoken and uninformed. Look at a used car salesman.....they usually sound like they know what they are talking about, but the well-informed buyers know that he is full of ********************.

Can't believe that people know what they are talking about just because they sound like they know something.

my two cents.

 

[fischman]

OTOH, I've gotta agree with 7777 that B19 comes across as an intelligent adult while most of the responses to him are juvenile and silly.

So, if I repeat the same thing over and over will that make me look intelligent too?

B19 hasn't "owned" anything on these boards. I haven't been juvenile towards him by calling him names, and I have PROVEN him wrong on almost ALL of his points.

 

[fischman]

If what B19 heard was correct, then what?

I have said it before and will say it again. B19 owns every one of you that is speaking poorly of him/her. You have lost the battle and have resorted to grade school antics. Does that bode well for your cause?

The very few of you that can even be in the same thread with B19 and look good (X-Rated, a few others) in the debate are the ones that do the most for their argument. If you are honest with yourselves and really want to help your cause, how about providing professional counter points to B19?

This would help those like myself, make a more informed decision on the subject. When you throw out these grade school insults and repeatedly say you are worth a six figure salary but can't even put a 5th grade level sentence together while arguing your points, look silly.

If you provide valid counter points, you reinforce your arguments. If you proceed with grade school comments and continue to be schooled by B19, you look like little grade school kids.

After sorting through the garbage in some of these posts, there is little doubt B19 is smarter than 95% of the posters arguing with him/her and equally on par with the last 5%.

I would highly recommend you recruit some posters like X-Rated to come and help you. You need it.

Just my .02.

So, if I repeat the same thing over and over will that make me look intelligent too?

(thought I'd try it out.)

Hmm... Doesn't appear to work.

 

[o2bflyn]

So, if I repeat the same thing over and over will that make me look intelligent too?

(thought I'd try it out.)

Hmm... Doesn't appear to work.

hahaha...worth a try!

 

[transpac]

Look, I agree with very little of what B19 posts. But, he does make his case in a logical manner. The responses to him are pretty much the opposite. Instead of posts that refute his statements, we get: "Drop dead B19, or "You're fired B19", and so on. Fischman, I must have overlooked the posts wherein you proved him wrong. Could you point me toward them?

 

[B19 Flyer]

7777,

What cause? What decision do you have to make?

If Don 19 were as smart as me, he wouldn't be on this board harrassing pilots.

Here is what you'll find out when you leave active duty. The vast majority of managements out there treat pilots like dirt. Thats why there are pilots unions.

I would not be surprised to find out Don was part of the the lawsuit (Aviators vs the FAA) that 50 Part135 companies filed against the FAA trying to stop the enforcement of Safety regulations of Duty and Rest. The enforcement that was the result of ExecutiveJet's pilot union inquiries to the FAA Chief Counsel ... going back to about 1990. The reason FOARC was formed and 91K eventually written.

Before this Fractional flying was done Part 135. When the FAA confirmed 135 flying required Prospective Rest ... The fractionals said, "OK ... we will fly our trips part 91 (which have no rest requirements). The 135 Charter companies then complained "NO Fair ... if Fracs don't need rest neither should we." But they lost their Lawsuit against the FAA and therefore fracs had a competitive advantage over charter ... until 91K.

So everyone who enjoys Prospective Rest in the non-scheduled flying world ... has the netjets pilots union to thank ... NOT 19... who was likely part of the fight against it.

Sorry I didn't respond earlier, but no, that wasn't my "contribution" to the industry. The rulemaking committee was a little different situation.

 

[B19 Flyer]

So, if I repeat the same thing over and over will that make me look intelligent too?

(thought I'd try it out.)

Hmm... Doesn't appear to work.

fischman, over the years of posting I've asked many questions of the union membership here on these boards that have never been answered, always ignored. But that's OK, I don't expect answers from industry questions that have legitimate value. Instead, you would rather state that I repeat myself over and over. Not true, but I am very consistent in my position on how I feel unions have a negative effect on the industry.

 

[brokeflyer]

As of yesterday, all our planes are accounted for either flying, or, like most in a service center.

so you're saying you don't like unions......got it thanks.

 

[Tgaug6300]

blah blah blah........B19, this.........B19, that.......blah.....blah....I love unions........I hate unions......blah blah blah blah.....your stupid, no your stupid.....yawn.

 

[fischman]

fischman, over the years of posting I've asked many questions of the union membership here on these boards that have never been answered, always ignored. But that's OK, I don't expect answers from industry questions that have legitimate value. Instead, you would rather state that I repeat myself over and over. Not true, but I am very consistent in my position on how I feel unions have a negative effect on the industry.

I have rebutted all your arguments.

I'm still waiting to hear what you think a pilot is worth. I asked it several months ago.

 

[fischman]

Look, I agree with very little of what B19 posts. But, he does make his case in a logical manner. The responses to him are pretty much the opposite. Instead of posts that refute his statements, we get: "Drop dead B19, or "You're fired B19", and so on. Fischman, I must have overlooked the posts wherein you proved him wrong. Could you point me toward them?

I'm entirely too lazy to go through the nearly 1000 posts I have made to find it.

B19 and I have done a good deal of sparring, but I haven't for a while because he hasn't brought anything new to the table for weeks. It was getting boring going over the same debate with him. It was beating a dead horse in an extreme manner.

If you search all of my posts, and go back a couple of months, you'll find some threads.

You'll also find B19 calling people (NJW) idiots.

You might find B19 telling folks to "shut up and get back to work."

It isn't one sided all. B19 has shown his true colors as well.

In my memory (which might be flawed) I have only called B19 1 bad name, and that was "liar." Feel free to prove me wrong (Something B19 hasn't been able to do yet ).