4 refineries out of commission for weeks to months

[JimNtexas]

How about we set up a few oil rigs on your suburban block. Then we'll see where you stand on this issue.

Too late. I grew up in parts of Texas where, in fact, we have oil wells mixed in with our houses. Its not that big a deal.

 

[Jimdandy]

Klhord....Let me guess you were sheltered your entire life by the military and have great difficulty in being creative or heaven forbid open-minded.


We need to be more balanced and practical. If you think people should be driving in vehicles the size of a tank just so they can get themselves to work alone is intelligent there your a bigger moron than I thought possible.

 

[FlyFastLiveSlow]

The fact is that the left opposes any form of fuel production, any form of electrical production, and any form of flood control. The only rational explanation for the left's behavior is a desire, based on self-hatred, to see the United States reduced to third world status.

You are an idiot blinded by the current neo-con/facist/theocratic morons running this country aren't you?

" I grew up in parts of Texas with our houses."

I saw this after I posted. Explains a lot.

 

[JimNtexas]

Klhord....Let me guess you were sheltered your entire life by the military

The left claims that they support the military.Even by the standards of their culture of lies, this is a whooper.

Jimdandy's little childish insult in lieu of actual argument is typical of the left's true attitude towards military members. It's really a form of psychological projection. Most left wingers are helpless victim types. They need a big nanny state to protect them from the cold, cruel world.

It is their knowlege of their own inadequacy that causes their hatred of the people who defend them.

 

[jetflyer]

Exxon Valdez f-cked up everything and delayed us drilling ANWR which we need to drill ASAP.

Three Mile Island and Chernobyl f-cked up everything and delayed more nuclear power plants in America which are needed ASAP.

The liberal left and the conservative right are both to blame. They have both been short-sighted and idiotic when it comes to our energy needs.

Let's just hope the energy problems we're going to face in the future don't get that bad, otherwise I'll be the first one RIOTING IN THE STREETS OF WASHINGTON D.C.

Jet

 

[414Flyer]

And you get this spoonfed data from where?

The largest environmental group in the country, The Sierra Club, fights sprawl at every turn.

How about we set up a few oil rigs on your suburban block. Then we'll see where you stand on this issue.

As for gas price gouging at the pumps...

Had you bothered to watch real news instead of the usual dribble from Sean Hannity at Fox, you would have seen congressional BIPARTISAN outrage at these prices AND at the RECORD profits of Big Oil and King Coal, both of whom invested heavily in this puppet of a President whom people are finally starting to take for the corporate lapdog he is.

As for my car...it's an ULEV. That's Ultra Low Emissions Vehicle for you anti-environmentalists out there. Next car will be a hybrid. And to everyone who drives a Hummer, Excursion or the like...you reap what you sow...fools.

Its common sense. Look at all the acreage that is completely destroyed when a mall goes up and its associated parking. A couple decent sized shopping malls are probably as much acreage as what is projected to be affected in ANWR. Unfortunately there are malls going up all the time.

I dont think Sierra Club is against sprawl in each instance. They are against it in general terms, but they are not going to picket and raise hell about new subdivisions and shopping areas like they are over ANWR, when ANWR affects far far far less people if any.

Drilling rigs on a suburban block is more nonsense and a diversion from the real issues since I have not heard of any suburban developments in ANWR, or anywhere else lately projected to have a rig next to a house. But guess what? The drilling rig is not permanent. its there for a couple of weeks to a couple of months. After that, its is a small wellhead. I would much rather live next to a wellhead than a mall.

I do recognize that since I drive a car, and fly aircraft, but of which rely on fossil fuels, it would be hypocritical for me to be against all petroleum exploration like some are.

As for record profits, well they are dealing with a commodity that has hit record highs, so it only goes to follow. Bush has no power to raise worldwide oil prices, thats illogical, especially in light of how little of the world supply the US produces now. DEMAND is driving the prices upwards. DEMAND from us, China and India. Should bush go to the UN and demand sanctions against India and China for wanting cars? Thats why its record prices.

What if United and Delta had record profits? What if Boeing did? Would you be whining about that too?

Why is it the ones complaining the most about the prices, are usually the one most against also increasing the domestic supply?

Personally I dont care for Hannity that much, he is too partisan and less ideological, and he sometimes seems to badger someone instead of letting them speak. I am not sure what Hannity has to do with this debate, unless its some kind of side topic to divert from the subject at hand.

 

[Geronimo4497]

So you find one fringe group and determine all by yourself that they speak for the entire body? Grow up.

I'm entitled to my opionion, as are you.

I feel that my example is just one of many; hence the situation we are in now. We also had a LNG project stopped recently by some nut job demagog because he was able to squeeze in a line in the transportation bill about not ripping down an old, no longer used bridge, where the new LNG site was supposed to be.

There is no one big answer to our country's energy problems. There are many solutions that need work in concert to fix the problem 10-20 years from now. It sure would be nice to have started this in the 1990's. But no, save the bloody rain forrest and invent the internet. HA.

 

[JimNtexas]

I want to go back to this question of "drilling rigs on a suburban block".

That's really not uncommon here in Texas. You see it all the time and its not that big a deal.

That's why the left's opposition to Anwar seems so crazy to me. That place is so big that there will be miles and miles between each facility. They are not even going to build roads between a lot of the facilities, they are going to use helicopters.

Go to Lulling Texas where there are oil wells on school playgrounds, and then come back and tell me about the "devastation" that oil drilling actually causes.

 

[Geronimo4497]

I want to go back to this question of "drilling rigs on a suburban block".

That's really not uncommon here in Texas. You see it all the time and its not that big a deal.

That's why the left's opposition to Anwar seems so crazy to me. That place is so big that there will be miles and miles between each facility. They are not even going to build roads between a lot of the facilities, they are going to use helicopters.

Go to Lulling Texas where there are oil wells on school playgrounds, and then come back and tell me about the "devastation" that oil drilling actually causes.

As you well know, ignorance and fear of the unknown generally makes people lash out, unfortunatly.

BTW, Thanks for your service, and Texas is great!

 

[klhoard]

. . .<snip>. .

As for my car...it's an ULEV. That's Ultra Low Emissions Vehicle for you anti-environmentalists out there. Next car will be a hybrid. And to everyone who drives a Hummer, Excursion or the like...you reap what you sow...fools.

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Thank you very much sir!! More gas for me. . . I'm going out to buy an F-250 tomorrow. . . .
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[Jimdandy]

Too late. I grew up in parts of Texas where, in fact, we have oil wells mixed in with our houses. Its not that big a deal.

Thats because your an idiot I don't want oil wells in my beautiful Alaska where they aren't already. Just so some Fat TX loser can get himself to his NASCAR race.

Ps jimntexas I was in the military also 8 years and people generally speaking are close-minded and very ignorant. I am not one of those lefty that you described however I am a realist.

 

[TonyC]

That's because you're an idiot I don't want oil wells in my beautiful Alaska where they aren't already.

Report back to us when you've actually been to ANWR.







Keith, what do you have against a 350?





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[atrdriver]

I don't know where you get that ANWR oil would only last for 6 months. The estimates that I have read say 15+ years. Not to mention the wells off the CA coast that have been shut down for enviromental concerns (tree huggers). Yes we need to investigate new forms of power for our cars, but to think that we can immediately switch from gas to anything else is crazy. We need to use what oil we have available to us, and for things that we have the current technology to stop using oil to power (ie electrical plants) we need to use that technology (nuke).

 

[atrdriver]

If being a Democrat and a Liberal means protecting our nation, our air, water, food supply, civil rights, human rights, environment and fellow neighbors from harm in any form including that from our own government, and never being afraid to question those in power...then I am proud to be one.

No, it means whining about everything, yet providing no coherent solutions to problems that others have been tasked to solve. Lets see. They are against building new refineries. Drilling new wells. Building new nuke plants. Building wind farms. Hydroelectric power. But they bitch like crazy when the power companies are making money selling something that is in very high demand, instead of trying to fix the problem by increasing supply.

 

[klhoard]

No, it means whining about everything, yet providing no coherent solutions to problems that others have been tasked to solve. Lets see. They are against building new refineries. Drilling new wells. Building new nuke plants. Building wind farms. Hydroelectric power. But they bitch like crazy when the power companies are making money selling something that is in very high demand, instead of trying to fix the problem by increasing supply.

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I'm going to invent a "liberal fired" electrical plant. Then when we begin to run out of power, the 51% of us with our heads screwed on straight can grind up the idiots and use them for power. (Oh yeah, we can also throw in all of the animials up in ANWR. . .)
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The whole "Two birds with one meat grinder" theory. . .
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TonyC, I have to save some toys for widebody Captain!!. . .
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[JimNtexas]

Thats because your an idiot I don't want oil wells in my beautiful Alaska where they aren't already.

You need to grow up. Calling someone and idiot is for the playground, not for adult discussions. It just shows you are running on pure emotion and not logic.

 

[DonVerita]

Its common sense. Look at all the acreage that is completely destroyed when a mall goes up and its associated parking. A couple decent sized shopping malls are probably as much acreage as what is projected to be affected in ANWR. Unfortunately there are malls going up all the time.

I dont think Sierra Club is against sprawl in each instance. They are against it in general terms, but they are not going to picket and raise hell about new subdivisions and shopping areas like they are over ANWR, when ANWR affects far far far less people if any.

Drilling rigs on a suburban block is more nonsense and a diversion from the real issues since I have not heard of any suburban developments in ANWR, or anywhere else lately projected to have a rig next to a house. But guess what? The drilling rig is not permanent. its there for a couple of weeks to a couple of months. After that, its is a small wellhead. I would much rather live next to a wellhead than a mall.

I do recognize that since I drive a car, and fly aircraft, but of which rely on fossil fuels, it would be hypocritical for me to be against all petroleum exploration like some are.

As for record profits, well they are dealing with a commodity that has hit record highs, so it only goes to follow. Bush has no power to raise worldwide oil prices, thats illogical, especially in light of how little of the world supply the US produces now. DEMAND is driving the prices upwards. DEMAND from us, China and India. Should bush go to the UN and demand sanctions against India and China for wanting cars? Thats why its record prices.

What if United and Delta had record profits? What if Boeing did? Would you be whining about that too?

Why is it the ones complaining the most about the prices, are usually the one most against also increasing the domestic supply?

Personally I dont care for Hannity that much, he is too partisan and less ideological, and he sometimes seems to badger someone instead of letting them speak. I am not sure what Hannity has to do with this debate, unless its some kind of side topic to divert from the subject at hand.

You're anolgies are laughable on their face--

1. Per your wisdom a "couple of decent sized shopping malls" are the projected drilling acerage that will affect ANWAR. And where did you come up with this one? The Sean Hannity neo-conservative think tank. Guess again pal. You are way off!

2. And what about all of the infrastructure needed to support that well...such as access roads through pristine wilderness. Or how about the inevitable spills?

3. Bush could send a shockwave through the oil cartels if he announced a massive plan to develop other forms of non-fossil fuels. But since he and lapdog Cheney are bought and paid for by Big Oil and King Coal, this is not going to happen.

4. Why do you spew such a moronic question regarding Boeing, UAL, or Delta? Those are airlines and aircraft builders, not oil conglomerates. Apples and oranges there pisano.

5. Finally...some agreement. Hannity is a "I've got mine screw everyone else" jerkoff. His inhumanity during some of the Katrina coverage was inexcusable. I was happy to see that there are still some vestiges of human dignity left at Fox News in the form of one reporter....Shepard Smith.

 

[DonVerita]

But no, save the bloody rain forrest and invent the internet. HA.

This would be the same rainforest that greatly contributes to the renewal of our Earth's oxygen supply, right?

 

[DonVerita]

I want to go back to this question of "drilling rigs on a suburban block".

That's really not uncommon here in Texas. You see it all the time and its not that big a deal.

That's why the left's opposition to Anwar seems so crazy to me. That place is so big that there will be miles and miles between each facility. They are not even going to build roads between a lot of the facilities, they are going to use helicopters.

Go to Lulling Texas where there are oil wells on school playgrounds, and then come back and tell me about the "devastation" that oil drilling actually causes.

Your rambling is bordering on the naucious. How much stock do you own in Exxon, Chevron, or any of the other Big Oil conglomerates?

We're not talking about an old time small rig surrounded by a fence. We are talking about huge rigs that require roads and heavy trucks belching out fumes and noise 24/7. So how about we do that in your backyard, make you breath that stench, pollute your water supply, and drive you to insanity from all the noise.

I want to make it clear that everyone understands our need for oil exploration will continue into the near future. But let's have an Exit Strategy to ween ourselves away from oil altogether. Bush has no plan nor does he want one.

 

[DonVerita]

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Thank you very much sir!! More gas for me. . . I'm going out to buy an F-250 tomorrow. . . .
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And it is comments like this that clearly demonstrate to everyone on this board what a tool you are.

I hear Hummers are at rock bottom prices now. Why don't you go and buy one of those. Get a shiney black one so I can get a nice can of white spray paint and tag it with the words, "GLUTTONY" on the side so all of your neighbors will see what a candy a$$ you truely are.

 

[JimNtexas]

We are talking about huge rigs that require roads and heavy trucks belching out fumes and noise 24/7. So how about we do that in your backyard, make you breath that stench, pollute your water supply, and drive you to insanity from all the noise.

You know absolutely nothing about how oil gets from the ground to your fuel tank. Nothing whatsoever. You could not be more wrong. You clearly have never even seen an oil well.

What you need to do is quit this childish name calling, stop stinking up the forum with your insane belching, and go learn something about oil production.

 

[DonVerita]

You know absolutely nothing about how oil gets from the ground to your fuel tank. Nothing whatsoever. You could not be more wrong. You clearly have never even seen an oil well.

What you need to do is quit this childish name calling, stop stinking up the forum with your insane belching, and go learn something about oil production.

And you need to get your head out of the sand sir. Open your eyes and realize that there are alternatives to Big Oil. Why do you have a problem with that? Or is your problem with people who disagree with you and/or challenge yoru misguided perceptions of reality.

Take your redneck banter somewhere else or come up with a viable solution that doesn't involve destroying what few unspoiled lands we have left or polluting the very Earth we depend on for life unless you want to see a dead planet one day. Oh...wait, you'll be long gone by then so who cares right? Let somebody else deal with the mess. Once again...the "I've got mine so screw everyone else" right wing extremist doctrine.

 

[inthewind]

How about we set up a few oil rigs on your suburban block. Then we'll see where you stand on this issue.

I'll happily set up an oil well in my backyard, for a fee of course! You are a complete dumbass. Fuel cells don't work, hybrids get the same mileage they just make more power/better acceleration.

As far as the environment. I deer hunt a lot and the best habitat for the deer happens to be old strip mines, the vegetation is so thick that they have all kinds of places to hide. The variety of wildlife in these old mines is incredible. I'm all for drilling so that we don't have to depend on our oil coming from some two bit dictator's well.

 

[Geronimo4497]

Ah, the ignore feature, it is a wonderful thing.

 

[414Flyer]

Because there have been acreage figures about how much land would be affected, and its a very small portion of ANWR. Drilling rigs are not kept on the site permanently. They are there for the drilling portion, then they are removed.

Do you think you can adultly discuss the issue without juvenile name calling? I have not called you names, and I have tried to talk maturely about a subject to you, and I would appreciate the same consideration.

Okay, lets look at how much land is affected from a shopping mall and its parking. Its going to be on the order of several hundred acres probably, or in that ballpark. And look at how much traffic those generation, thousands and thousands of cars a day, spewing pollution.

Oil spills are not a certainty when drilling. Why would anyone want to waste a commodity like that? Spilling oil doesnt gain anything. THere is no reason any oil has to hit the ground at all.

The president is not in charge of the cars we drive, or how much gas we burn. That is up to us as citizens. If people demand alternative fuels, it will happen. I wish people would drive fuel efficent cars, and conserve natural resources, since none of our resources are infinite.

But we should be logical and rational about things, emotionalism and name calling gets us nowhere.

 

[JimNtexas]

destroying what few unspoiled lands we have left

There you go with the "destroying" nonesense again. You really ought to visit Luling, Texas. Its a 30 minute drive from KAUS. Thats a real place that really exists. They really have oil wells in neighborhoods and playgrounds.

That's a fact. You ought to try and join the reality based community and learn some basic facts.

 

[inthewind]

At least my bike gets about 45 mpg. But most important are the nurses that want to go for topless rides!

 

[klhoard]

At least my bike gets about 45 mpg. But most important are the nurses that want to go for topless rides!

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Now THAT's a type of conservation I can support!!!
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[klhoard]

. . . <snip>. . .I'm all for drilling so that we don't have to depend on our oil coming from some two bit dictator's well.

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I'll do you one better. How about we just go in and kick the dictator's a$$ and take his oil. Geeze, how many times do we have to conquer Iraq's oil fields just to give them back to "the people". . . . the Roman Empire didn't stay on top by setting up Democracies around the globe. . . .
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[klhoard]

. . .<snip>. . .I hear Hummers are at rock bottom prices now. Why don't you go and buy one of those. Get a shiney black one so I can get a nice can of white spray paint and tag it with the words, "GLUTTONY" on the side so all of your neighbors will see what a candy a$$ you truely are.

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My gosh, do you carry a purse also? My neighbor came over and liked it so much HE'S going out shopping for a larger pickup truck also.
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As for "tagging". . . . dude, that's just queer. . . .
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