4 refineries out of commission for weeks to months

[Redmeat]

Instead of spreading the Ownership Doctrine, why don't you listen a bit more to what others besides Rush Limbaugh have to say. The Left never said they opposed fuel production. They want -sensible- production with -sensible- use in the form of conservation and higher mpg standards through hybrid vehicles thereby -reducing- our need for more oil and eventually eliminating that need alltogether through renewable form(s) of energy. What is it about this that the Right Wing doesn't understand? Now go park your SUV in your garage before someone tags it.

The Left couldn't find their a$$ with a flashlight and a map.

 

[JimNtexas]

I understand it takes power to make Hydrogen power. Granted. But technological improvements and economies of scale will bring that cost down, supply up, and have the added highly valued benefit of eliminating vehicle exhaust pollution thereby reducing greenhouse gases.

So will you take your hydrogen with nuclear, coal, or more very large dam projects? Pick at least one.

So the Left opposes flood control now, eh? And your proof for such an imbecilic statement comes from where?

Of course they do,and you know it. Heck, they'd like to tear down Boulder Dam. Flood control might hurt a "wetland" you know.

Here is a typical lefist view towards flood control in a New York Times editorial of 13 April 2005:

Anyone who cares about responsible budgeting and the health of America's rivers and wetlands should pay attention to a bill now before the Senate Committee on Environment and Public Works. The bill would shovel $17 billion at the Army Corps of Engineers for flood control and other water-related projects -- this at a time when President Bush is asking for major cuts in Medicaid and other important domestic programs. Among these projects is a $2.7 billion boondoggle on the Mississippi River that has twice flunked inspection by the National Academy of Sciences.

The Government Accountability Office and other watchdogs accuse the corps of routinely inflating the economic benefits of its projects. And environmentalists blame it for turning free-flowing rivers into lifeless canals and destroying millions of acres of wetlands -- usually in the name of flood control and navigation but mostly to satisfy Congress's appetite for pork.

This is a bad piece of legislation.

When was the last time you hear a leftie asking the goverment to build a dam?? They hate that kind of thing, and you know it.

 

[DonVerita]

So will you take your hydrogen with nuclear, coal, or more very large dam projects? Pick at least one.




Of course they do,and you know it. Heck, they'd like to tear down Boulder Dam. Flood control might hurt a "wetland" you know.

Here is a typical lefist view towards flood control in a New York Times editorial of 13 April 2005:

Anyone who cares about responsible budgeting and the health of America's rivers and wetlands should pay attention to a bill now before the Senate Committee on Environment and Public Works. The bill would shovel $17 billion at the Army Corps of Engineers for flood control and other water-related projects -- this at a time when President Bush is asking for major cuts in Medicaid and other important domestic programs. Among these projects is a $2.7 billion boondoggle on the Mississippi River that has twice flunked inspection by the National Academy of Sciences.

The Government Accountability Office and other watchdogs accuse the corps of routinely inflating the economic benefits of its projects. And environmentalists blame it for turning free-flowing rivers into lifeless canals and destroying millions of acres of wetlands -- usually in the name of flood control and navigation but mostly to satisfy Congress's appetite for pork.

This is a bad piece of legislation.

When was the last time you hear a leftie asking the goverment to build a dam?? They hate that kind of thing, and you know it.

Once again...you still appear to not be able to see the forest through the trees.

How long can we keep trying to tame Mother Nature? She will eventually win...always. Wetlands protect the coasts from storms. Wetlands absorb overflowing rivers. What don't you understand about this? Some dams were ill-concieved pork barrell projects from the get go. Extreme loss of wetlands, habitat, fish migration, etc. Others were well thought out and built in a way that helped the natural flow of water and aquatic life to continue. In your flood control quote above you reference a MIssissippi River project that twice failed inspection. So you believe that just because it is a "flood control" project it should be rubber stamped anyway. A flood control project where? In some area that will destroy more wetlands (which are a form of natural flood control by the way) just so a fat cat developer can put expensive homes there? That's not flood control. That's corporate greed at the expense of everyone else.

Environmentalists are mostly from the Left. These are the people who fight for clean air, clean water, sustainable habitat, pollution controls, anti-sprawl, and a host of other things to make YOUR life better. And then we have the Bush administration who has allowed increased levels of arsenic in our drinking water, Superfund site cleanup bills to be shifted to the taxpayers instead of the big corporations that caused them, increased mercury allowed into the air by coal fired power plants, non-enforcement of current EPA regulations with a continued degradation of such, no improvement in CAFE requirements, etc. etc.

I doubt you even know what the foundation of the Left is...let alone liberalism. You and others like you are so brainwashed by the likes of Fox News and Rush Limbaugh that you have lost the ability to think outside the confined box you've built around yourself. Take the blinders off. We are our brother's keeper. We have the moral and ethical obligation to take care of those around us who are less fortunate or in times of need. Perhaps one day you will be part of that group. There will always be bad apples from every walk of life; however they are a minority in the majority of good people.

If being a Democrat and a Liberal means protecting our nation, our air, water, food supply, civil rights, human rights, environment and fellow neighbors from harm in any form including that from our own government, and never being afraid to question those in power...then I am proud to be one.

 

[414Flyer]

ANWR will provide additional oil for more than 6 months, to say that is intellectual dishonesty. Probably will go for 20-30 years, just as north slope, prudhoe bay have.

Speaking of... Did the north slope and Prudhoe become an ecological nightmare? Did the Alaskan Pipeline become an ecological nightmare?

No, both were opposed were those reasons, and both ended up just fine. Would you support those being closed up?

Jims post was spot on. And yes the left is against energy exploration and production. They are against oil, against nuclear, against wind, against coal, against hydroelectric, etc. What exactly are they for?

Here is a question I have not yet ever gotten an answer to. I am not looking for politics or emotion. Just a plain cut and dry answer.

If ANWR is not enough oil to drill, then what is the minimum possible amount of recoverable oil that could be extracted, in order to drill someplace then?

 

[Jimdandy]

we will never run out of oil......however over the years the price will go up and up until it just isn't economically viable to use it. That will happen about 2025 to 2040 and to some extent right now.

So why not get ready now?

Answer: because Americans are in denial and mostly idiots I mean they voted for George W.

Just think if everyone got rid of their impractical SUVs and bought vehicles that got 35-40 mpg the airlines would be in great shape and oil would be about 38 dollars a barrel max.

 

[klhoard]

we will never run out of oil......however over the years the price will go up and up until it just isn't economically viable to use it. That will happen about 2025 to 2040 and to some extent right now.

So why not get ready now?

Answer: because Americans are in denial and mostly idiots I mean they voted for George W.

Just think if everyone got rid of their impractical SUVs and bought vehicles that got 35-40 mpg the airlines would be in great shape and oil would be about 38 dollars a barrel max.

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Until 2040 or 2050 then we'll be out of oil again. Going to smaller size cars will only put off the day we run out of oil, not prevent it.
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Personally, I'd rather use it all up for me. Right now. I'm going shopping for a larger pickup truck today. . . . See ya in the gas line. . .
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[JimNtexas]

I'm old enough to remember when the Alaska pipeline was built. We heard the same BS about the devastation it was going to cause, none of which came to pass. The same thing will happen with Anwar. Putting oil production facilities on 1% of a vast wilderness will have no effect on the local animals or vegetables. People will look back and wonder what all the fuss was about.

The left is opposed to all infrastructure and practical energy production facilities. They'd let all of Louisiana drown rather than risk the life of a snail darter.

 

[banger]

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Until 2040 or 2050 then we'll be out of oil again. Going to smaller size cars will only put off the day we run out of oil, not prevent it.
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Personally, I'd rather use it all up for me. Right now. I'm going shopping for a larger pickup truck today. . . . See ya in the gas line. . .
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As the fellows on "Reno - 911" put it:
"The way to hurt those arabs is to use up all their oil by driving SUV's"

 

[DonVerita]

ANWR will provide additional oil for more than 6 months, to say that is intellectual dishonesty. Probably will go for 20-30 years, just as north slope, prudhoe bay have.

Speaking of... Did the north slope and Prudhoe become an ecological nightmare? Did the Alaskan Pipeline become an ecological nightmare?

No, both were opposed were those reasons, and both ended up just fine. Would you support those being closed up?

Jims post was spot on. And yes the left is against energy exploration and production. They are against oil, against nuclear, against wind, against coal, against hydroelectric, etc. What exactly are they for?

Here is a question I have not yet ever gotten an answer to. I am not looking for politics or emotion. Just a plain cut and dry answer.

If ANWR is not enough oil to drill, then what is the minimum possible amount of recoverable oil that could be extracted, in order to drill someplace then?

1. 6 month supply at our current consumption rate pal.

2. BP Amoco, the major oil company at Prudhoe, has had some challenges. On Sept. 23, 1999, the company pleaded guilty to a federal felony connected to illegal dumping of hazardous waste at their Endicott Oil Field near Prudhoe Bay. As part of a plea agreement BP Amoco agreed to pay $22 million in criminal and civil penalties. The U.S Public Interest Research Group says between January 1997 and March 1998 BP was responsible for 104 oil spills in Prudhoe Bay.


3. So the Left is opposed to Wind now? What part of your a$$ did you pull that from? Wind is the most ecologicially friendly source there is. For you to throw such a nonsense statement out there shows your ignorance and blind obedience to the right wing spin machine. I ask again...to anyone...What will happen when there is no more oil left in the ground? What is your plan? The sooner we go full scale development of multiple alternative energies, the sooner we can flip OPEC the bird and start cleaning up our environment, atmosphere, and water. Do you have a problem with that?

4. How much does it take to make oil drilling profitable? Simple answer: I don't know because I'm not in the industry but I see the results of unmitigated pollution, limited supply, and one environmental disaster after another. Remember the Exxon Valdez?

Record oil profits are what we've seen for years. How about Big Oil slash it's profits by 20% for the next 12 months to bring the cost of gas down for everyone of us while these refineries get back online. They'll still make a mint.

 

[Geronimo4497]

Up here in Masshole2shats, there is a proposal to put up a wind farm in Nantucket sound. The leftist wackos ARE opposed to it up here, because the blades might kill some birds. Let us not forget the fact that the ultrarich, also mostly Liberal, people that live and have vacation houses on the islands don't want to look at it. If my memory serves, I do believe that someone who recently ran for president has a house down on the 'beautiful people" island. The good ol' left looking out for their common man. What a load of crap.

 

[414Flyer]

We can not possibly pump out the ANWR oil in six months. While I understand the extrapolation you are doing, its utter meaningless. Its a continous additional supply for 20+ years.

So if a single oil area cant not give us all of our oil for years and years, then we should not drill anywhere at all by that logic. We would have zero US oil production with that mindset

Yes, there are people opposing wind on the left now, because it might kill birds. Even that paragon of environmentalism RFK, Jr, is against wind where he lives because it might change the view. There are environmentalists opposing wind projects now or causing additional reviews to be done.

Sounds like you are quite against petroleum production. Do you think jet fuel magically appears in your plane or gasoline in your car?

So because of the Exxon Valdez, we should just end petroleum drilling and exploration then? Guess what? Lets just end aviation too while we are at it. I heard there have been some plane crashes involving airliners.

Yeah, companies that product oil will make record profits when it is high. THats just basic economics. Its because of our demand for it, that oil and gas our are high. If you dont like it, dont buy it. We are even more beholden than ever to middle eastern and venezuelan oil then before. The easier way to lower those record prices you hate, it to increase supply. There have been years when companies that produce oil have lots their shirts too, or not made much money when prices were crashing.

No one seems to gripe when Microsoft makes record profits, or wall mart, or if Boeing does, or when United did pre 9/11.

Far more environmental devastation is caused by new shopping centers than oil drilling does. But people are comfortable with new malls and places to practice endless materialism. I wonder how many acres of land were lots to malls in the past decade. No peeps from the environmental left about that.

 

[FlyinScotsman]

3. So the Left is opposed to Wind now? What part of your a$$ did you pull that from? Wind is the most ecologicially friendly source there is.

Don't those wind turbines kill massive amounts of those precious birds you all love so much?

 

[klhoard]

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"I don't own an SUV. . . my family does" - Senator John Kerry
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Quoted from the idiot himself during a pre-election interview when asked what vehicle he drove to the interview in. . . .
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At least the Right is truthful about natural resources. Lets use 'em up!!!
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[DonVerita]

Up here in Masshole2shats, there is a proposal to put up a wind farm in Nantucket sound. The leftist wackos ARE opposed to it up here, because the blades might kill some birds. Let us not forget the fact that the ultrarich, also mostly Liberal, people that live and have vacation houses on the islands don't want to look at it. If my memory serves, I do believe that someone who recently ran for president has a house down on the 'beautiful people" island. The good ol' left looking out for their common man. What a load of crap.

So you find one fringe group and determine all by yourself that they speak for the entire body? Grow up.

 

[DonVerita]

Far more environmental devastation is caused by new shopping centers than oil drilling does. I wonder how many acres of land were lots to malls in the past decade. No peeps from the environmental left about that.

And you get this spoonfed data from where?

The largest environmental group in the country, The Sierra Club, fights sprawl at every turn.

How about we set up a few oil rigs on your suburban block. Then we'll see where you stand on this issue.

As for gas price gouging at the pumps...
Had you bothered to watch real news instead of the usual dribble from Sean Hannity at Fox, you would have seen congressional BIPARTISAN outrage at these prices AND at the RECORD profits of Big Oil and King Coal, both of whom invested heavily in this puppet of a President whom people are finally starting to take for the corporate lapdog he is.

As for my car...it's an ULEV. That's Ultra Low Emissions Vehicle for you anti-environmentalists out there. Next car will be a hybrid. And to everyone who drives a Hummer, Excursion or the like...you reap what you sow...fools.