30 in 7 question

[great cornholio]

Ok I'm probably just dumb but I have a question about 30 hours of flight in 7 calender days. Me and a buddy got in a dicussion the other day and we both had different ideas. He said it was like legal to start legal to finish like the 8 hours in one day. I thought 30 in 7 went leg by leg. IE you have a 6 leg day and will have 28:30 in 7 so far. You fly 3 of the legs and end up overblock on on those legs. You now add up the new time and see that for now you have 30:05 in 7. I say you would have to drop at least one of the next 3 legs to stay under 30 in 7. My buddy said you can fly the legs because it was legal when you started the day. Who is right.

 

[heywatchthis]

You are right. He use to be right. The rule changed shortly after the American crash at Little Rock.

Legal to start -Legal to finish now counts only once you have taken OFF. If you taxi out and get a ground hold, you have to go back to the gate if it will be over your DUTY TIME.

I think it was the WITLOW letter or rule or something.

 

[b82rez]

You are right but not for the reason posted above.

The fact is that you cannot fly over 30 hours in 7 days. If you end up doing that, for whatever reason, you are in violation.

Legal to start, legal to finish refers to finishing flying during required rest periods. You cannot be scheduled for more than 8 hours, but as long as there have been no modifications to your schedule, you can fly past 8 (way past 8 if need be), so long as your schedule stays in tact.

What the last poster was referring to was the 16 hour duty day. The Whitlow interpretation says that you can, by no means, work for more than 16 hours. If you taxi out and get ground stopped, if you know you will go over 16 hours, even though you have blocked out, you cannot continue.

 

[apdsm]

You are right. He use to be right. The rule changed shortly after the American crash at Little Rock.

Legal to start -Legal to finish now counts only once you have taken OFF. If you taxi out and get a ground hold, you have to go back to the gate if it will be over your DUTY TIME.

I think it was the WITLOW letter or rule or something.

You are referring to Duty time. That is different from 30/7.

 

[DoinTime]

Ok I'm probably just dumb but I have a question about 30 hours of flight in 7 calender days. Me and a buddy got in a dicussion the other day and we both had different ideas. He said it was like legal to start legal to finish like the 8 hours in one day. I thought 30 in 7 went leg by leg. IE you have a 6 leg day and will have 28:30 in 7 so far. You fly 3 of the legs and end up overblock on on those legs. You now add up the new time and see that for now you have 30:05 in 7. I say you would have to drop at least one of the next 3 legs to stay under 30 in 7. My buddy said you can fly the legs because it was legal when you started the day. Who is right.

Actually your buddy is right. Legal to start, legal to finish applies to block time and it is reset at the begining of every duty day. The 16 hour max duty day must be recomputed throughout the day.

 

[b82rez]

Actually your buddy is right. Legal to start, legal to finish applies to block time and it is reset at the begining of every duty day. The 16 hour max duty day must be recomputed throughout the day.

Yes but the 30 hours is a hard number. You cannot fly more than 30 in a week. That's the rule.

The 8 hours between required rest periods says "scheduled", you can fly over that. The 30 hours is a hard number, fly over that and you will be in violation.

 

[SlapShot]

I think this is one of those things that depend on the interpretation of your companies’ POI.

I have had this discussion with a few people also and was never able to get a definite answer either.

 

[Towelie]

Yes but the 30 hours is a hard number. You cannot fly more than 30 in a week. That's the rule.

The 8 hours between required rest periods says "scheduled", you can fly over that. The 30 hours is a hard number, fly over that and you will be in violation.

Dude, you could not be more WRONG.

8 between rest periods, 30/7, 100/month, 1000/year are ALL legal to start legal to finish. That is basic 121 regs.

You have no idea what you are talking about.

 

[DoinTime]

Yes but the 30 hours is a hard number. You cannot fly more than 30 in a week. That's the rule.

The 8 hours between required rest periods says "scheduled", you can fly over that. The 30 hours is a hard number, fly over that and you will be in violation.

You can fly more than 8 hours per day, 30 hours per week, 100 hours per month, and 1000 hours per year just as long as you are never SCHEDULED to exceed these limits. The only "hard" number is a 16 hour DUTY day.

 

[RJPilott]

Dude, you could not be more WRONG.

8 between rest periods, 30/7, 100/month, 1000/year are ALL legal to start legal to finish. That is basic 121 regs.

You have no idea what you are talking about.

Thats the way i know it as well. ACA describes legal to start, legal to finish. If you start your last day and expect to finish at 28 hours, but due to delays you go over 30 on your last legs, its legal, according to our POI. Look back is actual, look forward is scheduled when you start your day. .not leg by leg.. Legal to start, legal to finish. At least that is the way it is at ACA. (i say ACA cause we havent changed anything but paint and a few letters). However, you may be able to get an inexperienced scheduler, and convince him/her that your last legs will go over 30/7 and get your last round cancelled. But i never done that...