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2nd time Jetblue has had this problem

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lowecur

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 14, 2003
Posts
2,317
Apparently this has been quite a problem for the 320. Neither the mfg or the airlines seems willing to make a comprehensive fix to the problem. If this happens again on a Jetblue flt, they can kiss those high LF's goodbye. The media coverage this received more than assured that. Good thing the 190 is coming soon!:)

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/050922/nyth184.html?.v=16
 
Horse$hit.

All that happened was JetBlue just got gobs of great publicity, and ANYONE who didn't ALREADY know about JB's great inflight entertainment just found out that they can pass their inflight time watching satellite TV. I doubt jetBlue could have paid for a more effective ad campaign.

And what if the same thing happens again? Apparently, you have a little delay, dump some gas, but still stay on centerline when you land. I'd say the public just got a big old dose of Jetblue, and about everything they saw and heard was pretty good news.

Compare that coverage to Delta... Every business segment says DAL will be laying off 9000, cutting domestic service, etc etc. I think anyone watching those stories on the same day will be a lot more likely to throw their ticket money at JetBlue.

...been wrong before...will be again....just one dude's opinion.
 
idiotic conspiracy theory

bvt1151 said:
I wonder if JB's Mx outsourcing to South America has anything to do with this.

Gee, I wonder if the Republicans in the White House had anything to do with it? Gee I wonder if the geo-equitorial alignment of Saturn had anything to do with it? Maybe, just maybe...could it be....SATAN?
 
Chronic Jetlag said:
Gee, I wonder if the Republicans in the White House had anything to do with it? Gee I wonder if the geo-equitorial alignment of Saturn had anything to do with it? Maybe, just maybe...could it be....SATAN?

Your insulting sarcasm is without basis.

Jetblue had a mechanical malfunction that caught national media attention. Since Jetblue made news a few months ago with their Mx outsourcing contracts, I think it is very appropriate to question whether those had anything to do with it.

Everybody seems so on edge today...:rolleyes:
 
I head jetBlue did this intentionally for the PR. The marketing department was under funded so came up with this idea. They didn’t have to pay for their airplanes and now they get free advertising. How the hell is the rest of the industry suppose to compete!
 
AlbieF15 said:
Horse$hit.

All that happened was JetBlue just got gobs of great publicity, and ANYONE who didn't ALREADY know about JB's great inflight entertainment just found out that they can pass their inflight time watching satellite TV. I doubt jetBlue could have paid for a more effective ad campaign.

And what if the same thing happens again? Apparently, you have a little delay, dump some gas, but still stay on centerline when you land. I'd say the public just got a big old dose of Jetblue, and about everything they saw and heard was pretty good news.

Compare that coverage to Delta... Every business segment says DAL will be laying off 9000, cutting domestic service, etc etc. I think anyone watching those stories on the same day will be a lot more likely to throw their ticket money at JetBlue.

...been wrong before...will be again....just one dude's opinion.

I don't believe that the A320 has a fuel dump system. Which really screwed those folks because CNN reported that the Directv was shut off the whole time those folks were going around in circles to burn off the fuel. Not that this is surprising most airlines have a policy to shut off the phones in the event of an emergency.

Do I think this hurt B6, no. Do I think it helped, no.

Do I think that this could hurt Airbus, I hope so. Buy American.
 
G4G5 said:
I don't believe that the A320 has a fuel dump system. Which really screwed those folks because CNN reported that the Directv was shut off the whole time those folks were going around in circles to burn off the fuel. Not that this is surprising most airlines have a policy to shut off the phones in the event of an emergency.

Do I think this hurt B6, no. Do I think it helped, no.

Do I think that this could hurt Airbus, I hope so. Buy American.

So if they were flying on a Boeing 737 how would they have dumped the fuel in the same situation?
 
We had a A-320 do that in YYZ about 7 years ago. It had just come out of a heavy check in GSO. There has been a problem with the A-320 nose wheel steering for a long time.
 
Capn Mike said:
So if they were flying on a Boeing 737 how would they have dumped the fuel in the same situation?

Apparently this has happened twice to Jetblue once to UAL and once to AWA. How many times has it happened on a 737?
 
G4G5 said:
Apparently this has happened twice to Jetblue once to UAL and once to AWA. How many times has it happened on a 737?

Dunno, is it the same amount of times the 320 has had a rudder problem?
 
AlbieF15 said:
Horse$hit.

All that happened was JetBlue just got gobs of great publicity, and ANYONE who didn't ALREADY know about JB's great inflight entertainment just found out that they can pass their inflight time watching satellite TV. I doubt jetBlue could have paid for a more effective ad campaign.

And what if the same thing happens again? Apparently, you have a little delay, dump some gas, but still stay on centerline when you land. I'd say the public just got a big old dose of Jetblue, and about everything they saw and heard was pretty good news.

Compare that coverage to Delta... Every business segment says DAL will be laying off 9000, cutting domestic service, etc etc. I think anyone watching those stories on the same day will be a lot more likely to throw their ticket money at JetBlue.

...been wrong before...will be again....just one dude's opinion.
I'd say the smart thing to do next time is to request clearance to burn fuel in an area that is inaccessible to camera view. Having this plane on camera for 2 or 3 hours is like watching those police chases on COPS. The news channels were wrong about 5 or 6 times with the time of touchdown just to keep you watching.
 
IB6 UB9 said:
Dunno, is it the same amount of times the 320 has had a rudder problem?

Not sure, I don't think most of us knew about all the nose wheel steering problems until today. I still say buy American or are you opposed to that?
 
Capn Mike said:
So were you talking about the fuel dumping capabilities or not?

Neither aircraft has a fuel dump but one of them has a known nose wheel problem. I am not saying one is better then the other what I am saying is if all things are equal buy American.
 
If it ain't Boeing, I ain't going!!
 
Do I think the crew did an outstanding job, absolutly. Do I think that this will hurt B6 in anyway, No.

SWA and Ryan air have proven that it is possible to run the most profitable LCC in the world with a 737. So if all things are equal..............

Do I want to see Airbus tank, absolutly. If it means more high paying jobs in the US, I am all for it.

Do I like seeing Airlines export all of their heavy maintnance to inferior South American facilities, Heck no.
 
Do I like seeing Airlines export all of their heavy maintnance to inferior South American facilities, Heck no. (emphasis added)

What inferior South American facility is JetBlue outsourcing heavy MX to? Is TACA inferior? What data can you share to back this up claim?

My understanding is that TACA has an excellent reputation for heavy MX -- this reputation is internationally recognized industry-wide.

Or, do you simply assume TACA MX is inferior because it is a Latin American company?
 
G4G5 said:
Apparently this has happened twice to Jetblue once to UAL and once to AWA. How many times has it happened on a 737?



One word for you and the 737...


"Flipper"....
 
Chronic Jetlag said:
Gee, I wonder if the Republicans in the White House had anything to do with it? Gee I wonder if the geo-equitorial alignment of Saturn had anything to do with it? Maybe, just maybe...could it be....SATAN?

dork.
 
G4G5 said:
Neither aircraft has a fuel dump but one of them has a known nose wheel problem. I am not saying one is better then the other what I am saying is if all things are equal buy American.

And the 737 has a known rudder problem. Now the 737 has a supposed fix. When I flew it they had installed digital rudder pressure reducers that reduced maximum rudder authority at approximately 800 ft agl. It's been a few years since I was on the 73 so maybe someone has more info. Now the 737 has had at least three rudder hardover incidents of which two turned into fatal accidents. The Airbus has had 4 or 5 of these nosewheel incidents with no fatalities. Which is a worse problem to have?

Do I like Boeing better than Airbus? No but the 320 is better than 737, as much as I hate saying that.
I hope Boeing kicks Airbus's sorry French a$$ but for now I''ll keep flying the bus.
 
Could it be

Chronic Jetlag said:
Gee, I wonder if the Republicans in the White House had anything to do with it? Gee I wonder if the geo-equitorial alignment of Saturn had anything to do with it? Maybe, just maybe...could it be....SATAN?

Could it be...SOROS?
 
What is on the airbus nose wheel to control the tiller and the steering? Is there a pin or something?
 
KC-10 Driver said:
What inferior South American facility is JetBlue outsourcing heavy MX to? Is TACA inferior? What data can you share to back this up claim?

My understanding is that TACA has an excellent reputation for heavy MX -- this reputation is internationally recognized industry-wide.

Or, do you simply assume TACA MX is inferior because it is a Latin American company?

Lets start with the Inspector General's report:
http://www.whitehouse.gov/results/tools/ah_award_nominee_transportation.html

The team disclosed weaknesses in repair procedures and practices at 18 of the 21 repair stations visited that indicated FAA must take steps to enhance its oversight of these facilities. The team determined that these weaknesses in repair station oversight occurred because FAA inspectors did not place adequate emphasis on these facilities as part of their surveillance. The team determined that FAA had no mechanism in place to obtain information on how much work is sent to repair stations domestically or overseas so that FAA could adjust its surveillance resources as needed

Read the report or do a google search the GAO came up with the same findings in 1998.
FYI their are approx 300 certified foreign repair stations, the inspector could only get to 21 of them of which 85% had a failing grade. FYI the FAA has NO oversite in South or Latin America, the nearest office is Miami (they do have offices all over Asia and Europe)

http://www.aviationtoday.com/cgi/am/show_mag.cgi?pub=am&mon=0304&file=0304washington.htm

The problem with many foreign repair stations that are certificated by the FAA and accordingly perform maintenance on U.S.-registered aircraft is that they are not monitored at all, said the OIG (Inspector General). The report stated that some "foreign repair stations are not inspected by FAA inspectors at all because other civil aviation authorities review these facilities in FAA's behalf." Yet the OIG said that when it reviewed 16 of these foreign repair stations, in 14 of them their files did not contain enough information about what had been inspected and if any problems had been discovered. The FAA has to do a better job of reviewing these foreign repair stations, the OIG said. This report lends substance and statistical data to an old complaint by American repair stations that foreign FAA-certificated repair stations are able to use cost-cutting procedures that would not be approved in the U.S. because they are not closely monitored

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/06/08/AR2005060802324.html

Maybe you can come up with an Inspector General's report, or a GAO report, or an article by the Washington Post that supports your claim "My understanding is that TACA has an excellent reputation for heavy MX -- this reputation is internationally recognized industry-wide." Didn't think so.

The IG also discovered that most Latin/South American repair stations don't keep employee records on computer, they are on paper. When asked in many cases they could not verify that their employees met the FAA required experience.

Do you understand the concept of a CRS vs an A&P license? Certified Repair Stations don't require their mechanics to have A&P's. This was developed by the FAA because mechanics departing the armed forces don't get A&P's. The logic was; why should he, if he is fixing a 707 for uncle sam he is more then capable to fix a 707 for UAL or AA. So, he could be hired directly from the service and start on the line, not having to deal with the lengthy A&P testing process. Foreign CRS's take this one step further, the only person required to have an FAA license is the IA who signs off on the work. Weather the mechanic has the proper credentials is by the IG's report, up to the foreign facility. The FAA doesn't have enough inspectors to check everyone of Taca's mechanics but you can bet that each one of AA Tulsa tech or DAL's ATL guys have been checked.

http://www.amtonline.com/publication/article.jsp?pubId=1&id=1713

Take a close look at the chart on the bottom of the article. Stop drinking the kool aid and do the research for yourself.

Now not to have you think that I am picking on Jetblue. How else do you think that it is possible for NWA to get rid of 1/2 it's mechanics over night? Foreign CRS's.

More high tech US jobs going abroad.
 
Last edited:
G4G5 said:
Fact: Take a close look at the chart on the bottom of the article, no one outsource's more maintenance JetBlue

Now not to have you think that I am picking on Jetblue. UAL is #2 on the list. How else do you think that it is possible for NWA to get rid of 1/2 it's mechanics over night? Foreign CRS's.

More high tech US jobs going abroad.

Thanks for posting a good article, and I agree with you about the problem of Mechanics jobs going overseas.

The list with your link is in order of increase in outsourcing - of which JetBLue is number one and UAL number two.

Listed in order of actual percent of maintenance outsourced the number one honors went to Alaska Airlines, followed by:

Alaska
America West
Continental
Southwest
Jetblue
US Airways
United
Northwest
Airtran
ATA
American
Delta
Frontier
Spirit

Murk
 
Percent of Outsourcing for 14 Air Carriers in 2002, 2003, and the First Three Quarters of 2004*

Air Carrier Percent of Maintenance Expense Outsourced
2002 2003 2004** Change (2002 to 2004)
Jet Blue 39% 51% 63% 24%
United 33% 41% 54% 21%
ATA 22% 20% 43% 21%
Air Tran 31% 46% 46% 15%
Frontier 20% 27% 33% 13%
US Airways 50% 58% 60% 10%
Northwest 44% 56% 51% 7%
American 38% 38% 42% 4%
Alaska 79% 75% 80% 1%
Continental 65% 65% 65% 0%
Southwest 65% 65% 64% (1%)
Delta 38% 37% 35% (3%)
America West 77% 75% 72% (5%)
Spirit NA 34%*** 30% Unknown


source Aviation Maint Tech magazine, link provided above

Thanks
 
G4G5 said:
Apparently this has happened twice to Jetblue once to UAL and once to AWA. How many times has it happened on a 737?

I don't know but there seems to be more 737 falling out of the skies these days...
 

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