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229 Delta Pilots to Retire

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767-300ER

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 25, 2003
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156
Another 229 Delta Air Lines Pilots Retire

Harry Weber, AP


ATLANTA - Another 229 Delta Air Lines Inc. pilots have retired, locking in their retirement benefits ahead of a 32.5 percent pay cut scheduled to go into effect Wednesday, according to union officials at the struggling airline.

Those pilots whose retirements take effect Wednesday will receive retirement benefits based on their salaries before the pay cuts, said Karen Miller, a spokeswoman for the pilots union. Retiring pilots can also elect to receive half their pension benefits in a lump sum and the other half as an annuity later - a move that could ensure they receive at least some payout even if Delta later files for bankruptcy.

The departures come as pilots begin to feel the effects of the sweeping $1 billion concession package they approved last month in hopes of keeping Delta out of bankruptcy. The union also agreed to a 16 percent reduction in vacation pay, changes to the composition of the pension plan and increased cost sharing for active pilot and retiree medical benefits.

Delta issued a statement Wednesday downplaying the retirements, saying it did not "foresee any disruptions to our operation."

But the airline, which had told pilots the concessions were crucial for its survival, took a more concerned tone in a regulatory filing two weeks ago.

"If our pilots retire prior to their normal retirement at age 60 at greater than historical levels, this could disrupt our operations," Delta said in a Nov. 15 Securities and Exchange Commission filing.

The airline was not more specific, but a large number of retirements could strain the airline's staffing and financial resources - particularly if the retirees take the lump sum payment.

Before Wednesday's announcement, 694 Delta pilots had already retired this year. And, as of mid-November, about 2,000 of the airline's roughly 7,000 active pilots were eligible to retire, according to the airline.

To try to ease staffing shortages, Delta reached an agreement with the pilots union in late September to allow pilots who retire early to return to duty on a limited basis. But the program is voluntary for pilots and is an option for those who sign a waiver before retiring, the union's Miller said.

Only three of 71 pilots who retired early on Oct. 1 were rehired under the agreement, according to the SEC filing.

Miller had said Tuesday that at least 100 pilots were expected to retire effective Wednesday. But pilots had until midnight Tuesday to decide, and more apparently opted to leave.

Of those who submitted their papers by Wednesday, 197 were early retirements, she said. The normal pilot retirement age at Delta is 60. Senior pilots with enough years of service can retire early at age 50.

Shares of Delta edged up 10 cents, or 1.4 percent, to $7.07 in late morning trading Wednesday on the New York Stock Exchange.
 
I don't know the total numbers yet, but a bunch of guys have come back as post retirement pilots. Quick look shows 13 777 capts and 30 765 capts.
 
here is the word from the MEC.

The numbers are in for the December 1, 2004, retirements. As of 12:30 p.m., the numbers are as follows:

o 230 Total retirements

o 198 Line pilot retirements

o 7 Normal retirements

o 222 Early retirements

o 57 Post-Retirement Pilots selected

o 18 Line Check Post-Retirement Pilots selected
 
Recalls?

Will this have any effect on recalls? And what is the status of recalls? Heard Feb. would not have a recall class. Don't mean to change the subject, just curious.
 
I don't really know yet, but I hope the recalls will continue. There may be a slow down due to the raising of the cap from 75 to 82 hours and adding PBS scheduling, but the addition of a lot more flights to the system in Feb should entice more recalls. We may lose some more Captains in Jan, and that will add to the needed pilots I would think.....



Bye Bye--General Lee
 
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I think Daveman hit the nail on the head. Everyone not at Delta watches this forum not because we think we'll be hired this year, but because it all flows down hill. Delta furloughs, Delta recalls, we are all affected. Hope those retirees enjoy their RV-4s and fishing trips because they earned them. And I hope the recalls continue, those guys have earned their positions as well. But for me, I'd rather they were giving me LORs so I can get on at Delta, than trying to get my job because they retired early.
 
The price of oil going below $45 a barrell should help :) Hopefully Delta can pull through and get the furloghees flying.

Demand for air travel is back. If we can get the government to play along maybe this industry will turn around.
 
A positive spin from Fins? Nice!!!!



Bye Bye--General Lee
 
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Funny someone mentioned the 91/135 flying. Job fair of some sort down in MIA....and buddy was manning table for his airline, said an older guy walked up. Asked him what his experience was, and turns out he was a 767 Checkairman with an early out from Delta, looking for some extra change in his last few years I guess.... Job was for A300/B727's
 
* Delta Pilots Walk Out

That's the teaser line my local TV news station used this morning to lead into the story about Delta early retirements.

It never occurred to me that Delta would negotiate the deal and then hire PR-meisters to spin it to make Delta pilots look bad doing it.


Good grief. :rolleyes:
 
That is why I ONLY watch FOX NEWS---Fair and Balanced. Their headlines only make me brown my shorts twice a day.....



Bye Bye--General Lee
 
Early retirees coming back to fly ?

How do the masses feel about this ? Sounds to me like a contract violation that would surely ruffle feathers. That is if the MEC does not sell out the group as a whole to keep some dues coming in from the upper seniority. Has the term "scab" been floated about at all ? Just curious. I am sure there are several DAL pilots that would be willing to take an upgrade or even more furloughees that would like to come back to work ?

The furloughees at UAL were given a pittence portion of the stock reallocation plan once UAL emerges from BK. Lets see, give them 5% to pacify them and 95% to the remaining group who did not have to give up their jobs. 100% pay cut for the furloughees. Just don't get the "take care of our own, and get what I can for myself" attitude so many pilots have. Seniority rules !!! No Really.
 
P3-Adub said:
Sounds to me like a contract violation that would surely ruffle feathers. That is if the MEC does not sell out the group as a whole to keep some dues coming in from the upper seniority. Has the term "scab" been floated about at all ?
P3,

The post retirement provision was negotiated by ALPA...no "contract violation" involved. "Scab" ????????? If you don't know what you're talking about, perhaps you shouldn't be talking.

SCAB ?!?!?!?!
 
P3-Adub said:
How do the masses feel about this ? Sounds to me like a contract violation that would surely ruffle feathers. That is if the MEC does not sell out the group as a whole to keep some dues coming in from the upper seniority. Has the term "scab" been floated about at all ? Just curious. I am sure there are several DAL pilots that would be willing to take an upgrade or even more furloughees that would like to come back to work ?

The furloughees at UAL were given a pittence portion of the stock reallocation plan once UAL emerges from BK. Lets see, give them 5% to pacify them and 95% to the remaining group who did not have to give up their jobs. 100% pay cut for the furloughees. Just don't get the "take care of our own, and get what I can for myself" attitude so many pilots have. Seniority rules !!! No Really.
All your diatribe can be summarized in three words, "You're a moron."

Try educating yourself about what is going on with the Delta Pilots before you make yourself look like an idiot.

P.S. You need to learn what the term SCAB refers to because you obviously don't get it.
 
P3-Adub said:
How do the masses feel about this ? Sounds to me like a contract violation ...
You should pay more attention. Where were you when we debating the PRP TA? It passed. It's part of the PWA, now.


It saved the day, and it means furloughs will be recalled more quickly. Just ask General Lee!

;)
 
Tony C. is sorta correct. It did save the day initially, which means it stopped a Chap 11 filing and that could have resulted in further plane parking. The main deal here is that we wanted to NOT go through what United and USAir pilots have gone through. We voted in that TA (#45) and it made sure that we wouldn't have to park planes due to lack of staff, and it also states that as long as we have PRPs, there will be no further furloughs. Had we not signed and lost 500 Captains in one month, we would have had to park every widebody, and many of those retiring would have been line check airman and sim instructors. It would have been a cluster fukc. Instead, those PRPs will eventually be gone, and the line check guys that stayed during this last retirement wave 2 days ago (16 guys I believe) will stay and help train the replacements. That is a fact, and they will all be gone eventually---because the IRS is watching---and they don't like people staying too long after receiving their lump sums.......


To say that we would have been better off not voting in this TA and watching Delta crumble is absolutely wrong---it would have made things a lot worse. It would not have brought the furloughs back any faster, and probably would have resulted in many more. Now, we have a chance to get better, and a lot of guys have retired anyways---just not all at once with no back up. Oil prices have come down a tad, and we have a new credit line that will help pay off short term bills. That's better than being in court paying lawyers millions of $$$$$.


Bye Bye--General Lee
 
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General Lee said:
We voted in that TA (#45) ... and it also states that as long as we have PRPs, there will be no further furloughs.

Ummmm General? Do you want to correct that?
 
Tony C,


That is a correct statement. Sure, there could be a Chap 11 and that could change that, but as I keep telling you Tony, the PRPs cannot stay for an extended amount of time due to IRS oversight. I think you need to read the agreement. It stated NO FURTHER FURLOUGHS WHILE PRPs are employed. They all have to be gone by December 31st, 2005. If you think differently, then please provide proof.


Bye Bye--General Lee


PS: Tony, in the actual TA (or agreement) in Section 11, under "Representation, Scope, Seniority, Bidding, Training, and Furlough" and under letter G---it states "No pilot will be placed on furlough during the employment of post-retirement pilots."


Where do you get your "Cocky Know it all" attitude?
 
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General Lee said:
... as I keep telling you Tony, the PRPs cannot stay for an extended amount of time due to IRS oversight. I
Yeah, yeah, I know, I knooooow. You seem to have developed some kind of unnatural affection for the IRS, in fact. :)


There is a significant difference between "as long as we have PRPs, there will be no further furloughs" and "if we declare bankruptcy, the first thing we'll toss out is the no furlough clause." THAT's what is says.

(Don't you remember, you already HAD a "No Furlough" clause - - you didn't need a TA to get that!)
 
I am sooo glad you KNOW we will go Chap 11. That is probably why they awarded 330,000 stock options to two of the top VPs---so that could all go down in flames. You like to think you know everything, and you probably KNEW we were going to go into bankruptcy, but yet again it didn't happen. Will it happen in the future? I don't really know. You seem to know.

Listen to this Tony-----HAD WE GONE INTO CHAP 11, THE NO FURLOUGH CLAUSE WOULD HAVE BEEN TOSSED FIRST. FACT. WITHOUT THE TA, WE WOULD HAVE FILED CHAP 11. FACT. WHICH OF THESE TWO FACTS DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND? The TA stopped an immediate Chap 11 filing, we survived another huge retirement chunk, our stock has climbed from the $2 mark, gas prices have gone down, and we have new financing. Not bad and hopefully it will get better. You are not a psychic, are you? Neither am I. And, I was told that fact about the IRS by an MEC member familiar with the negotiations.



Bye Bye---General Lee
 
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General Lee said:
PS: Tony, in the actual TA (or agreement) in Section 11, under "Representation, Scope, Seniority, Bidding, Training, and Furlough" and under letter G---it states "No pilot will be placed on furlough during the employment of post-retirement pilots."


Where do you get your "Cocky Know it all" attitude?
Oops - - I was responding while you were editing. OK, you're right. It does say there will be no more furloughs. (Which in itself is confusing since your PWA already had a "No Furlough" provision.) The trouble is, that's not all the LOA says. Paragraph G is cited as the SOLE provision of the Agreement from which the Company will seek relief in a bankruptcy. In other words, if it declares bankruptcy, it plans to not honor the no-furlough provision. That's a fairly significant aspect, in my opinion.

Speaking of opinion, I do realize it's just that, and no more. I apologize if I came across as "cocky know it all." Criticism taken - - I'll try to do better.


My interest in your Company is not directly personal, but it's close. I have close relatives that derive their livelihood from your PWA. I wish you well.
 

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