2 -v- 1 (close call with a Viper)

[AIR2MUD]

When the USAF weapons school brings in 30+ a/c in the form of B-1's, C-17's, B-52's, A-10's, 15's, 16's, 18's, and 22's... all for a Weapons School phase in Nellis <snip>

Whoa whoa whoa. I can't BELIEVE you could not mention and therefore slight the most important weapons systems in the inventory....


































....Predators/Reapers, and the AOC.

I am convinced that the Air Force is attempting to morph itself into something every Gen-Y teenager would beg borrow and steal to be a part of. I'm not talking about being a go-fast F-22 pilot; no no no!

I'm talking about the real-life video game that is the equivilent of microsoft flight sim with Hellfires (Predator Porn) or Command and Conquer (the AOC).

http://www.airforcetimes.com/news/2008/04/airforce_uav_pilots_040108w/

"Gen. John Corley, head of Air Combat Command, sees the advantage of first-assignment pilots staying with UAVs and related staff positions for their entire careers. In this scenario, a first-assignment Predator pilot could go to Reapers on his second tour and then fill a staff position before coming back to UAVs as a major. The pilots could also fill air liaison officer slots with Army units and work at air operations centers, the same as other pilots.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8-kNPKNCtg

Under Moseley’s or Corley’s scenario, UAV pilots would be rated officers who went through the same yearlong specialized undergraduate pilot training course as pilots heading other aircraft."

Emphasis added above is mine. I understand they are going to create a weapons school for these things too. SIGN ME UP!

When I went into the military I would have LAUGHED if some guy had laid out the career track posted above. Then I would have signed up to be an 0311 in the Marines - probably to be schwacked in a blue-on-blue by a Reaper.

If our civilian brethren think they have to worry about F-15s/16s/18s/22s, they better start worrying about a platform without a live person with a natural self-preservation instinct on board!

For the civvies out there - one more reason to be REAL cautious around restricted areas. Not only are the Predators/Reapers out and about, but the Army/Marines are launching their own UAVs too.

Another thing about Restricted areas - we are often running around in there without our lights on at night. Just another word to the wise.

Y'all be careful out there...especially if you're in the Air Force and are filling out a preference worksheet!

 

[Mud Eagle]

Please, please, PLEASE tell me you're kidding. All part 121/135 carriers have verbage in their FOMs that state this.

No, I'm not kidding.

I'm looking for an actual, specific reference.

Excerpt from Advisory Circular 120-55B:

Are Advisory Circulars regulatory in nature (as in 'shall', 'will', and 'must' verbage)?

 

[JungleJett]

As unfortunate as it may be, most ground commanders are screaming for more control and more access to UAV's....not much yelling about more F-22's.

But that Pred's to Raptors back to Preds...typical AF mentality. Take away experience from one place, put it in some random place and then jam back to the place you started..and expect great things.

Remember, the "fighter mafia" is gone.....lets see what the future brings to our beloved force.

 

[AIR2MUD]

Are Advisory Circulars regulatory in nature (as in 'shall', 'will', and 'must' verbage)?

The short answer is yes.

The FAA is similar to the Air Force in the 'obscure document used to hang you with' department. An Advisory circular is considered guidance, kind of like our doctrine manuals and whatnot. What happens when you go out and do something that doesn't fall in line with the guidance?

WHACK!

So, yes, these ACs are used to beef up and expand upon the regs. You can decide not to follow them right up to the point where you get caught.

 

[NuGuy]

NuGuy....

I would be willing to bet that neither of these guys were 121 or 135..therefore NO FOM to reference. And FOM are COMPANY regs...not FAA.

And...I am sure the FOM (regs) might say something about avoiding active MOA's as well.

And NO, I am not kidding.

JJ,

Those become effective once the TCAS is installed in the aircraft.

As part of any TCAS installation, there is an supplemental type certificate (STC) for the equipment. As part of the equipment, there is a Approved Flight Manual Supplement. As part of the supplement, there are new limitations, which include the TCAS operating restrictions which I already outlined: An RA MUST be followed, and maneuvers opposite to an RA are prohibited.

Once in the AFM, those limitations become part of the aircraft limitations, which everyone must adhere to, part 91, 135, 121, it doesn't matter.

And by the way, for 135/121 operators, the FOM is the same as the FARs. Adherance is mandatory unless it's an emergency. Compliance with the FOM is the same as the FARs.

Nu

 

[highsky]

I am a full time corporate pilot and a part timer in the Guard, so I see both sides of the argument.

It never ceases to amaze me that pilots with no experience in a certain area of aviation can be so quick to throw the B.S. flag and tell the other half who do have said experience just what it is they are doing wrong.

Pilot will be pilots I guess.

Both sides of the argument are correct.

Civilian dudes - stop flying VFR through active MOAs. Treat a MOA as a restricted area, often it is indeed an extension of one. TALK to someone before you go in there. I know WAY too many civilian pilots who have the attitude of 'It's just an MOA' and blunder their way into the middle of something they really don't want to be involved with.

Military dudes - be aware that it is just a MOA and not a restricted area. Heck, how many times have we been working in a restricted area and had joe bag o' donuts civvy come plodding along in his Mooney, sectional map sunshade in place, on autopilot flying the green line on a GPS?

For the civvys out there, the mere fact that you can see an F-16 means it is a lot closer than you are used to seeing any other airplane in flight. To a military pilot looking back at you, he/she is a lot farther away than they are used to flying in even route formation (a much, much looser formation than the tight fingertip formation you see the Blue Angels/Thunderbirds in).

Military pilots are aware of TCAS, but often times are NOT aware of exactly what sets it off and what your required action is if you get an RA. What to a military pilot might be a normal rejoin to get a look-see could cause serious RAs in a civilian's cockpit.

Let's try to remember that we're mutually dependent on each other. The civilians help us pay the taxes so we can go mach-snot (except the Hog - we spend all that extra gas money on 30mm rounds) and the military guys are going mach-snot to give the civilians the freedom to fly their airplanes around.

Some mutual respect, understanding and cooperation would be appreciated and goes a long way.

Well said.

 

[USMCAirWinger]

Lesson learned:

Prior to intercepting civ in MOA: IFF - STBY

 

[AIR2MUD]

Lesson learned:

Prior to intercepting civ in MOA: IFF - STBY

Technique only!!!!



I flew a 1 v 2 against two T-38Cs out of Moody a few years back. It was supposed to be a 2 v 2, but the lead fell out, so I launched and met up with them in the area (we were operating out of the Savannah CRTC).

I was able to get some intel from a buddy who was an instructor there as to their interflight freq. I also knew the 38Cs have a similar-to-TCAS system that they would be coordinating against me with.

First set was no surprise. No matter what I did - and especially with airspace limitations - they hawked me and performed a flawless intercept.

Second set, I seemed to have some 'intermittant issues' with my IFF (transponder to civilians) that allowed me to at least get to the merge before they picked me up - I got a Fox Two kill in before the other guy schwacked me.

Third set, more 'intermittant IFF' issues until about 10 miles (according to their bogey calls on me) when all of a sudden my IFF 'stopped working'. What a shame. I turned the volume down on the radio that was set to their interflight freq to keep things a bit more fair. Was able to make it to the merge, get a guns kill from below on the lead and a fox two on the second guy.

Not a bad day for a single A-10!

 

[Big Wave]

T-38c Tcas

Nothing more fun than, "monitor...vertical...speed..." when you're "in" the vertical.

A little bit of a learning curve when the C-models first arrived...

 

[McGillicutty]

I don't think I've seen a single advocate of VFR civilian traffic explain why it's a GOOD idea to fly through a MOA, yet. Like highsky, I used to be a CFI in a former life and looking back at it, I was such a fool to transition MOAs.

But I didn't have the luxury of kickin' it with the big wigs at CNATRA, though, so I might've been missing something.