2 -v- 1 (close call with a Viper)

[JungleJett]

10 feet...nice form!

http://www.aopa.org/flightplanning/articles/2008/080707f-16.html

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

AOPA reports the F-16 pilot was reprimanded....

FAA releases radar video of F-16's close call with GA aircraft
By AOPA ePublishing staff

AOPA has obtained a video of the radar return and radio calls for the March 21 incident in which an F-16 pilot flew in close formation with the unsuspecting pilots of a Pilatus PC-12 and a Beechcraft Premier jet flying through an active military operations area. The pilots took aggressive maneuvers to try to prevent a midair.

The F-16 pilot, based out of Luke Air Force Base, was reprimanded. Luke officials have told AOPA that they will alter their local training program to avoid this type of encounter in the future.

AOPA has recommended that the Air Force and the FAA develop a way for center controllers to communicate with military controllers in real time. The two were not communicating at the time of the March incident.

 

[414Flyer]

10 feet...nice form!

http://www.aopa.org/flightplanning/articles/2008/080707f-16.html

I think its been proven the F-16 pilot was nowhere near 10 ft off the wing, more like 1/4 mile

 

[SIG600]

Ya, ATC radar has nothing even close to the resolution to break out 10' of separation. I'm calling BS. Especially since the TACTS/ACM pods confirmed he stayed outside of 1000'.

 

[JungleJett]

I was only commenting about the "offended" pilots judge of distance.

 

[cjdriver]

Who cares how close he came. No metal was bent. They were both in the airspace legally. Nuff said.

(edited so as not to ruffle feathers)

 

[McGillicutty]

Hahaha this guy with the TCAS RA is a dork.

 

[Scrapdog]

Hey, how about this...don't fly through a friggin active MOA like an idiot when fighters are manuevering at high speed. What a concept. Then you won't get your ridiculous RA and sound like a clown on the radio...

 

[Scrapdog]

AOPA reports the F-16 pilot was reprimanded....

Thanks Rez - very observant.

 

[erj-145mech]

Hey, how about this...don't fly through a friggin active MOA like an idiot when fighters are manuevering at high speed. What a concept. Then you won't get your ridiculous RA and sound like a clown on the radio...

How about this...Lt Viper Driver show some discipline while playing war games and not execute a 180 to intercept an non participating aircraft? What a concept! I guess they don't teach that in ROTC?

And by definition, a MOA is not closed airspace. There was nothing illegal about the two aircraft transiting the airspace.

 

[SIG600]

How about this...Lt Viper Driver show some discipline while playing war games and not execute a 180 to intercept an non participating aircraft? What a concept! I guess they don't teach that in ROTC?

And by definition, a MOA is not closed airspace. There was nothing illegal about the two aircraft transiting the airspace.

It all will be as soon as some self rightous jackoff transits through "because he can", gets shwacked, and we kill several people.

If ATC doesn't send IFR traffic through a hot MOA, maybe you should reconsider going through VFR. Don't give me that see and avoid lecture either ... when engaged in a fight with 3-8 other jets my brain power is all but at max capacity already, and under 7G's.

 

[highsky]

Before I joined the Air Force, as a civilian I used to fly Cessnas through MOAs all the time VFR...because I could, and it was a big shortcut.

Then I started flying in the military in those MOAs and experienced first hand the types of operations going on in there. That's when I realized what an idiot I was before.

It's a REALLY dumbass plan to fly VFR through a MOA. It's just a tragedy waiting to happen.

 

[Jafo73]

How about this...Lt Viper Driver show some discipline while playing war games and not execute a 180 to intercept an non participating aircraft? What a concept! I guess they don't teach that in ROTC?

And by definition, a MOA is not closed airspace. There was nothing illegal about the two aircraft transiting the airspace.

Uh, that would be UPT, not ROTC... ROTC is in college, UPT is pilot training... Even then intercept training would probably be in the follow on training to UPT.

 

[414Flyer]

For some of us in certain fields like aerial firefighting, and for those in EMS flying, we do not really have the luxury of steering around MOAs.

 

[CrewDawg]

For some of us in certain fields like aerial firefighting, and for those in EMS flying, we do not really have the luxury of steering around MOAs.

Aerial firefighting VFR at 17,500...holy crap you must be really good!!! I kid, I kid.

How about this...Lt Viper Driver show some discipline while playing war games and not execute a 180 to intercept an non participating aircraft? What a concept! I guess they don't teach that in ROTC?

Most likely Capt or Maj Viper Driver! I sounds like he had some good discipline, he called a KIO and stopped the engagement to wait on a VFR aircraft to transition. It looks as if he stayed "well clear" of the civilian aircraft.

And by definition, a MOA is not closed airspace. There was nothing illegal about the two aircraft transiting the airspace.

Not illegal at all, just not that smart when it is active. As I have said before if you trade paint with me in a MOA, I have a better chance of making it out alive than you. So your family gets the bad news and I go home that night all because "you had the right to be there."

 

[SIG600]

For some of us in certain fields like aerial firefighting, and for those in EMS flying, we do not really have the luxury of steering around MOAs.

Granted, no argument there. There are acceptable levels of increased risk we all must take periodically.

 

[erj-145mech]

Most likely Capt or Maj Viper Driver! I sounds like he had some good discipline, he called a KIO and stopped the engagement to wait on a VFR aircraft to transition. It looks as if he stayed "well clear" of the civilian aircraft.

Well, Lt Viper Driver was the only thing that caused the situation in the MOA, he executed a 180 to intercept the civillian, flew his wing for a while, and then executed another 180 to continue his original course. There was no conflict until he created one. He was reprimanded, the USAF is changing its policy on flights in MOA's, and the civillian didn't even get the transmission to call the controlling agency. It already looks like the USAF has admitted errors in operations, and is changing those operations. The military does not own the MOA's, they are joint use.

 

[vectorvictor]

Should have shot him down on principle alone. Just kidding.

I can't tell you how many times I went through MOA's that were active. Most of the ones were locally controlled so you could talk to the military controllers on VHF. Never saw it as a problem as long as you talked to them.

 

[SIG600]

Well, Lt Viper Driver was the only thing that caused the situation in the MOA, he executed a 180 to intercept the civillian, flew his wing for a while, and then executed another 180 to continue his original course. There was no conflict until he created one. He was reprimanded, the USAF is changing its policy on flights in MOA's, and the civillian didn't even get the transmission to call the controlling agency. It already looks like the USAF has admitted errors in operations, and is changing those operations. The military does not own the MOA's, they are joint use.

You obviously know d1ck about what really goes on in a MOA, so why don't you just stop talking?

 

[Future SNA]

I used to fly through MOA's VFR all the time when I was civilian. I always had flight following and I'd say the majority of the time ATC would let me know if the MOA was in use. Knowing what I know now, I realize there would've been absolutely no way I could see/avoid the kinds of dynamic maneuvering the military does in a MOA. Knowing what I know now, I would excercise a bit more diligence during my preflight as to whether or not MOA's I would be transiting are active and at what altitudes. As the planes I flew got bigger/faster/flew higher, I would make every opportunity to get out of a MOA as fast as reasonably possible while IFR to help everybody out. Anybody flying that high VFR through an active MOA is frigain retarded, enough said.