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1990's - "The Good 'Ol Days"

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BizPilot

BizPilot

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 9, 2004
Posts
132
I remember the nineties: beating doors in 1992, trying to find free-lance work with 120 former Eastern guys doing the same thing in BHM.

Richard Scrushy (of Healthsouth fame) had 4 jets and nobody on full-time. He had ~10 guys working part-time 5 days a week, no benefits. Some had kids.

I knew a guy flying a BE-200 solo for $40k a year. A retired Army guy undercut him and got the job for $30k and no benefits.

Nobody hired, other than SWA and Valujet, until about '96. When I started at ASA in '95 I had 1500TT, 500 turbine and was the least qualified in the class - there were two ex military guys.

My favorite memory: I was begging for a job at Trans-South (it was taking 2000 hours to get a C210 job) and met an ex F-4 guy. He was driving a courier truck, waiting on a flying slot to open up. He'd been driving that Chevy Luv for 7 months.

Yeah, I remember the nineties. As Kurt Vonnegut said - there are no good old days, just days.....
 
Huck said:
I remember the nineties: beating doors in 1992, trying to find free-lance work with 120 former Eastern guys doing the same thing in BHM.

Nobody hired, other than SWA and Valujet, until about '96. When I started at ASA in '95 I had 1500TT, 500 turbine and was the least qualified in the class - there were two ex military guys.

Yeah, I remember the nineties. As Kurt Vonnegut said - there are no good old days, just days.....
Click to expand...
Yep, the good (?) old days... glad to see someone else here remembers the same stuff. The early '90s; back when you could barely get a 135 check hauling job with 2000 hrs; when it took 4-5000 hrs to get a BE-1900/J-31/E-110 FO job; when the E-120, SF-340, Dash 8 and ATR-42 were "heavy iron", not looked down upon as turboprop trash by a 900 hr TT kid in the right seat of an RJ... and an RJ? What's that? Going from C-172 CFI to right seat at a "commuter"? Nope, that didn't happen.

I know it's a whole new world now, the industry has changed completely... but it's kinda funny (or sad, actually) to hear some of the kids on here whining about how bad things are; they really have no idea...
 
Clawing and scratching for students. Pumping gas for an FBO/charter operator for two years to finally fly right seat as a contract guy for two years until you earned full-time status. I remember a furloughed major pilot who was a former Gulf War F117 pilot applying for an FBO job to get a foot in the door. I was hoping I would get a job flying the Brasilia someday. I do have to say though, the future looked brighter then than now.
 
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It certainly has changed...we had people walk out of interviews when told they would not be "guaranteed" a seat on the RJ. Kids that said "I deserve the jet cause I have 1000 hours with 150 multi" Maybe if every one had to get furloughed and watch their company go under ...be out of aviation for a few years ..work at a job they hate...start over at the bottom....o say three times...then some attitudes would be a tad different.
 
Huck said:
I remember the nineties: beating doors in 1992, trying to find free-lance work with 120 former Eastern guys doing the same thing in BHM.

Richard Scrushy (of Healthsouth fame) had 4 jets and nobody on full-time. He had ~10 guys working part-time 5 days a week, no benefits. Some had kids.

I knew a guy flying a BE-200 solo for $40k a year. A retired Army guy undercut him and got the job for $30k and no benefits.

Nobody hired, other than SWA and Valujet, until about '96. When I started at ASA in '95 I had 1500TT, 500 turbine and was the least qualified in the class - there were two ex military guys.

My favorite memory: I was begging for a job at Trans-South (it was taking 2000 hours to get a C210 job) and met an ex F-4 guy. He was driving a courier truck, waiting on a flying slot to open up. He'd been driving that Chevy Luv for 7 months.

Yeah, I remember the nineties. As Kurt Vonnegut said - there are no good old days, just days.....
Click to expand...


When I first started flying regularly in 1996, I remember my CFI explaining that because "things were changing for the better" he'd only have to teach for about 1500 hours before he could go to Ram Air for a couple years before hitting the regionals. He said that "until recently" (1996) the only way to get a Regional turbo-prop job was to pay for the training after you had "2500 hours or so". One of the CFIs who worked there part-time had instructed for three years, flew freight for two in CLT, and had been "lucky enough" to get on with Simmons (AE) at 3000 + hours.

Yep ... good times. :D
 
700 hrs 135 in an Aztec before I got my break. I graduated to a 1900. I still remember hearing the kids call it a piece of s**t. If they only knew.
 
wms said:
Clawing and scratching for students. Pumping gas for an FBO/charter operator for two years to finally fly right seat as a contract guy for two years until you earned full-time status. I remember a furloughed major pilot who was a former Gulf War F117 pilot applying for an FBO job to get a foot in the door. I was hoping I would get a job flying the Brasilia someday. I do have to say though, the future looked brighter then than now.
Click to expand...

Man, I must say... Been there, done that! Left my CFI job in early '91 with 1000TT because the local economy had gone sour and no one was gonna spend money on flying with their jobs in jeopardy. The Cold War had ended and the military released a BUNCH of veterans while 3 major airlines went out of business and threw out all kinds of experienced guys on the street. I finally said to hell with it, got my CDL and went Over the Road driving for alot of years (and a million miles or so) cause there was no way I was gonna PFT. I finally broke back in during the late '90s (after a lot of struggle to get my foot in the door anywhere). Times had finally gotten fat again, and even then it took alot of effort.

This business has always had its ups and downs. I once read somewhere that a professional pilot can expect to be furloughed at least 3 times during a 30 year career, so should have a back-up plan to keep eating. Goes to show you just gotta love this business to stay in it with that much uncertainty.
 
Let's see...during this time I was flying the OV-10 around South Carolina on made-up low level routes...flying F-15s over the South China Sea, Alaska, Turkey and Iraq, Europe, and the Gulf Coast...making 40, 60, 80, 100k a year some years. (also some pretty crappy days a long way from home, and the whole getting shot at on the ground during the Gulf War thing...)

Point isn't to gloat, but to point out to the wannabes on the boards that trading a few years of your life to fly for Uncle Sam is tough work, but then as guys like my buddy Huck have shown, its tough on the civilian side too. I knew back in 1985 that there were a couple ways to the airlines, but no path is easy or guaranteed. My AU roommate worked for ONE YEAR after graduation at ASA then got hired by American in 1988...been there ever since. There were some days in 91, 94, and 96 I wondered if I was the screw up and if he did things a lot smarter than me. While I think we both feel pretty blessed at the way things turned out, there were a lot of guys who came along just a little bit later that had a long, tough road to their first good airline gig (if it came at all).

Look at all your options--keep an open mind--and good luck.
 
xjlifer said:
It certainly has changed...we had people walk out of interviews when told they would not be "guaranteed" a seat on the RJ. Kids that said "I deserve the jet cause I have 1000 hours with 150 multi" Maybe if every one had to get furloughed and watch their company go under ...be out of aviation for a few years ..work at a job they hate...start over at the bottom....o say three times...then some attitudes would be a tad different.
Click to expand...

Not surprising, sadly. I was actually hoping for the Saab so I could get DTW right out of class. But I was still happy and made sure to make the best of everything (while it lasted) to be in CVG on the Avro. I am really lucky though that my wife wouldn't move down there with the S*** sandwich being served to us XJ'ers. At least here I found a PIC Citation job, even if I have to brave the bowels of YIP.
 
:puke:
jbDC9 said:
Yep, the good (?) old days... glad to see someone else here remembers the same stuff. The early '90s; back when you could barely get a 135 check hauling job with 2000 hrs; when it took 4-5000 hrs to get a BE-1900/J-31/E-110 FO job; when the E-120, SF-340, Dash 8 and ATR-42 were "heavy iron", not looked down upon as turboprop trash by a 900 hr TT kid in the right seat of an RJ... and an RJ? What's that? Going from C-172 CFI to right seat at a "commuter"? Nope, that didn't happen.

I know it's a whole new world now, the industry has changed completely... but it's kinda funny (or sad, actually) to hear some of the kids on here whining about how bad things are; they really have no idea...
Click to expand...


The really sad part is that these kids are thrilled to make the same if not less (from inflation's perspective) flying 70 people that you guys made flying 19.
:puke:
 
Yep in 93 I couldn't even get that 135 night check job with 2500 hrs. They kept being taken by furloughed guys. Had to work the ramp for a year before I got my big break flying a 99. Great days they were!
 
satpak77 said:
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/0000572/L/

how about that one? This was before the days of glass cockpit, auto-everything RJ's of today, flown by snot-nose Embry Riddle PFT crybabies who have never hand flown an ILS to mins in heavy rain, on analog gages, with PAX in the back.
Click to expand...

http://www.airliners.net/open.file/0279881/M/

I graduated riddle in 2000 and this was the first airliner i flew. I still have yet to fly a glass cockpit airplane. I flew this to mins many times, in heavy rain and snow. Big boeings can back me up on that one. Not all riddle people make it to the nice RJ at 900 hours.
 
bigboeings said:
Yep in 93 I couldn't even get that 135 night check job with 2500 hrs. They kept being taken by furloughed guys. Had to work the ramp for a year before I got my big break flying a 99. Great days they were!
Click to expand...


I remember the days..... When I finished flight school in '93 I was the luckiest man in the world 'cause I had a contact that hooked me up flying skydivers on the weekend in a 59' 182.....for FREE. Or should I say "they didn't even charge me to fly it for 'em."
 
Huck,
TransSouth BHM, That brings back memories!! HM took a chance on a 1300hr guy, lucky me, the day I started(11/91) two different guys from Eastern walked in looking for work. Nine months later on to ASA, 4.5 years to the left seat of the Brasilia, then a couple years reserve/standups. Off to greener pastures, to be furloughed 3.5 yrs later.
Great Job but a Sorry Career!!!!!!
 
Some of us still work before we go on to the regionals. Don't judge everyone at the regionals by the frosted hair 21 yr old running around. You guys sound just like the old guys, YOU SAID you would NEVER sound like.
 
The thread should read: "The 1960's, 1970's, 1980's 1990's - The good ol' days."
 
The old rule of years ending 3 are bad years to find jobs, years ending in 8 are great years to find jobs. 60's, 70's, 80's, and the 90's, now the 00's. Hiring boom is starting next year leading up to 2008, get those ratings now and be on the top of the hiring curve.
 
Gee nice of Kit Darby to stop by.
 
That's not Kit, it's one of Kit's disciples.

On topic, I remember in 1996 (less than 10 years ago) when we used to make fun of the Saab pilots. Called them, "Glass Asses" because they had an autopilot, hot coffee, an F/A. Their shirts were always crisp and white (much less sweat and oil stains).

We would beg for a few bags of pretzels when we parked next to them.

10 legs a day... Johnstown, Pittsburgh, Altoona, Pittsburgh, Johnstown, Pittsburgh, Johnstown, Pittsburgh, Altoona, Pittsburgh, Johnstown.

No autopilot. (Today's Riddle, Comair Academy, etc. kids would never make it)

Exterior: [FONT=ARIAL, Helvetica, Geneva][FONT=ARIAL, Helvetica, Geneva][FONT=ARIAL, Helvetica, Geneva] http://www.airliners.net/open.file/0061678/M/[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]

Interior: http://www.airbroker.se/images/propjet/j31int.jpg

Cockpit: [FONT=ARIAL, Helvetica, Geneva][FONT=ARIAL, Helvetica, Geneva][FONT=ARIAL, Helvetica, Geneva]http://www.airliners.net/open.file/0850319/M/[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]
 
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Kit speaks the truth, you have to believe. Your only salvation for your lost pilot career is to listen to the truth. Kit speaks the truth, well most of the time. Sometimes things change like pensions, pay, hiring and working conditions.
 
pilotyip said:
Sometimes things change like pensions, pay, hiring and working conditions.
Click to expand...

Change? I guess the dropping of an atomic bomb will "change" a city, too.
 
"..flown by snot-nose Embry Riddle PFT crybabies who have never hand flown an ILS to mins in heavy rain, on analog gages, with PAX in the back."

Sir,

I must retort. Yes, I was a "snot-nosed Embry-Riddle type" at one point.

However, I never paid for any training, and I have flown more approaches, by hand, raw data on analog gauges, in larger airplanes, with more "PAX" in the back than you ever have... or will.

Why?

Because you have a bad attitude Son, and it will show through everytime you interview.

Don't generalize about groups of people. It only makes you look bad, not them.

You'll grow up someday.

Til' then...Good Luck.

YKW
 
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HalinTexas said:
Real men fly "Junkstreams."http://www.airliners.net/open.file?id=0445844&size=L&width=1024&height=698&sok=JURER%20%20%28nvepensg_trarevp%20%3D%20%27Oevgvfu%20Nrebfcnpr%20Wrgfgernz%2031%2FFhcre%2031%27%29%20NAQ%20%28nveyvar%20YVXR%20%27Genaf%20Jbeyq%20Rkcerff%25%27%29%20%20BEQRE%20OL%20cubgb_vq%20QRFP&photo_nr=8
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AAhhhhhh, my first airliner.

:) Those were fun times. When I was in J31 new hire raining, there was a Chautaqua class there to fly the Saab. I remember thinking "WOW, I don't know if I could ever fly THAT" I just thought the Saab was the best. I ended up flying it for 4 years. It was my first type. It's still the one that puts a little tear in the eye.
 
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