18 hour duty days are safe?

[suupah]

"...regarding Part 91, tail end ferry. The interpretation is clear that
Part 91 flying is not subject to 121 Duty Time Rules. Part 91 is not subject to 8 hrs or 16 hour duty day. However, common sense and in the interest of Safety, ******* Air will prohibit any flight activity when duty will exceed 18 hours. Currently ****** Air is working to finalizing a Risk Assessment Tool for all repositioning and ferry flights.
After any tail end Part 91 flying adequate rest must be accomplished prior to next 121 flight duties."

Aviators, is this safe?

 

[relief tube]

nope.....fatigue clause that s--t unless you're wide awake and its to your advantage/company will do a huge favor for you.

 

[COOPERVANE]

I wouldn't even do it if it were advantageous to me.

If it's unsafe it's unsafe

I would be calling fatigued for that $hit. If everyone did it, it would GO AWAY

 

[brokeflyer]

weird...how can you be "off" duty and still doing a repo leg part 91?

So you show your duty off time diffrent than your block in time from the last flight?...

This is bull$hit intrepretation from some dept manager who is trying make himself look good by saving the day with a safety issue.

It dont matter if it's 91,121,135 or whatever part you make up. An air carrier dont have anything called part 91 duty. You can a part 91 LEG but you are duty, 135 or 121.

unsafe..... You can legally accept a part 91 leg at the end of the day if you want to, but the company cant ASSIGN you a part 91 leg that will take you over you duty time. That would not be in compliance with the regulations

 

[joe_pilot]

Ditto what brokeflyer said.

The aircraft might be operated under part 91, but the pilot is subject to part 121 or 135 rest rules. Simple as that.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

We used to do it all of the time in my regional life. It is crap, but it is legal crap.

 

[zasca]

Why do it? Don't your contracts have max duty at 16 or less? Have seen 15.5 and 15hr maxes.

 

[ImbracableCrunk]

At the Pinnacle 3701 hearing, one of the board members was wondering the same thing. Of the course the RAA or the ATA probably had some thugs stop by her place with a case of money in one hand and a pipe in the other.

 

[Afraid to Fly]

Like I said in another thread, I was pissed off about this as well and called my rep today about it. He said that they are on top of it and will be putting out something late tonight or tommorow concerning this.

 

[Nevets]

One of the reasons why ALPA supports H.R. 915. It has this language in it thanks to ALPA:

SEC. 816. DUTY PERIODS AND FLIGHT TIME LIMITATIONS APPLICABLE TO FLIGHT CREWMEMBERS.

Not later than 180 days after the date of enactment of this Act, the Administrator of the Federal Aviation Administration shall initiate a rulemaking proceeding for the following purposes:

(1) To require a flight crewmember who is employed by an air carrier conducting operations under part 121 of title 14, Code of Federal Regulations, and who accepts an additional assignment for flying under part 91 of such title from the air carrier or from any other air carrier conducting operations under part 121 or 135 of such title, to apply the period of the additional assignment (regardless of whether the assignment is performed by the flight crewmember before or after an assignment to fly under part 121 of such title) toward any limitation applicable to the flight crewmember relating to duty periods or flight times under part 121 of such title.


(2) To require a flight crewmember who is employed by an air carrier conducting operations under part 135 of title 14, Code of Federal Regulations, and who accepts an additional assignment for flying under part 91 of such title from the air carrier or any other air carrier conducting operations under part 121 or 135 of such title, to apply the period of the additional assignment (regardless of whether the assignment is performed by the flight crewmember before or after an assignment to fly under part 135 of such title) toward any limitation applicable to the flight crewmember relating to duty periods or flight times under part 135 of such title.

Call your Senator and tell them to insert this language into S.1451.

 

[pilotyip]

18 hours is a piece of cake if your duty started at 0700 after a good nights sleep and going until 0100 to get back home. 18 hours is a ball buster if your duty started at 1900 after a being up all day and going until 1300 the next day. What about a four sooze in the FBO during the 18 hours? all these things come into consideration. 18 hours by itself tells nothing.

 

[samballs]

18 hours is a piece of cake if your duty started at 0700 after a good nights sleep and going until 0100 to get back home. 18 hours is a ball buster if your duty started at 1900 after a being up all day and going until 1300 the next day. What about a four sooze in the FBO during the 18 hours? all these things come into consideration. 18 hours by itself tells nothing.

showing your management side 18 hours is not safe.

 

[samballs]

18 hours is a piece of cake if your duty started at 0700 after a good nights sleep and going until 0100 to get back home. 18 hours is a ball buster if your duty started at 1900 after a being up all day and going until 1300 the next day. What about a four sooze in the FBO during the 18 hours? all these things come into consideration. 18 hours by itself tells nothing.

If your duty started at 7 means you were up at 530

 

[suupah]

18 hours is a piece of cake if your duty started at 0700 after a good nights sleep and going until 0100 to get back home. 18 hours is a ball buster if your duty started at 1900 after a being up all day and going until 1300 the next day. What about a four sooze in the FBO during the 18 hours? all these things come into consideration. 18 hours by itself tells nothing.

It really comes down to risk management. You are rolling the dice with an 18 hour duty day. It is completely avoidable with proper use of reserves and sufficient staffing.

 

[pilotyip]

not really

showing your management side 18 hours is not safe.

There is a long line of pilots who will tell you otherwise. Lets see its 2100, I have been on duty 15 hours, I am in MMIO, and I have choice to spend the night in MMIO, with a cab ride through MMIO in the middle of the night, or hop in my airplane and fly home in three hours. Almost everyone would make the decision at that time to go home. However I believe you are waving the safety flag. and no one can ever be against the safety flag. So to say any more when the safety flag is waving is a loosing battle. BTW not to mention that 18 hrs of duty is legal under 121 for a two-man crew with, if a third man rides the jump seat for all but 2 hrs. Rest in the jump seat is such a good thing. Again not mentioning the 16-20 hours days crossing 4-5 time zones? Are we going to ban int'l flying or stop in Iceland and change crews, turn a 2-day trip into a 6-day trip with no additional flying?