172 = $127/hr!

[Redan]

I read an article which stated that older GA aircraft are actually being turned away from some maintenance shops due to insurance liabilities.

http://www.aopa.org/whatsnew/newsitems/2007/070108maintenance.html

This article mentions the "deep pockets" for attorneys to attack. Anyone wishing to identify the root cause of the high expense of aviation (as well as numerous things in our society) could simply settle on that one little word..."ATTORNEYS."

 

[~~~^~~~]

Redan:

The attorneys have help from Experts. This is one of the most impressive. It is not unheard of for the bills of this lab to run over $100,000 a day to perform and inspection on a general aviation aircraft:
http://www.mcswain-eng.com/index.html
It is pretty neat to see these folks in full operation, but when you think about the effect it is having on the part of aviation that we love, it is very sobering.

This is the reason few young professionals wanting to feed a family would even consider being a mechanic who would work on General Aviation aircraft.

 

[timmay]

The other thing nobody has mentioned is the absurd aquistion cost of these new airplanes. A new 172 is around 300,000 and a cirrus can run over 500,000. That along with fuel, insurance and the depreciated value of the airplane make it very expensive to rent them out.

 

[Redan]

Wow Fins, that is most impressive. I wouldn't be at all surprised if approaching fifty percent of the cost of an aircraft is for liability insurance. GA manufacturers were nearly sued out of existance several years ago. Ask an OB-GYN about the cost of malpractice insurance (if you can find one who still practices). And we all know how well attorneys and "consultants" smooth out labor negotiations.

 

[DX Rick]

I know what you mean. I went down to the local FBO here in ATL, and they want well over $100/hr for a little Diamand 4-seater without all the fancy flat-panels and such. Add the Honeywell screens and they want something like $150/hr. I remember renting a C-150 at the same airport back in the mid 90s for only $35/hr. I just can't afford to go rent a GA airplane to buzz around the local area anymore. I remember when we used to talk about the "$50 hamburger." Now it's more like the $200 hamburger.

How much did you spend on that King Air at GIA?

Hello?!?!?! People????

Gas is not cheap! What do you expect? Yeah, that sucks, but what do you expect?

Mon, when I was working on my Private in 2001, the rate of a C-172 was $120/hr without GPS. $130/hr with.
I found a POS Cherokee 180 w/ constant speed for $100/hr.


The regionals highing like they are, the flight schools will jack up the costs because "You'll get a job as a real airline pilot right away" is what they tell propective student. Well, thats the line the owner of the flight school I worked for. He even had convinced that they could skip the regionals if they instructed for 5,000 hours.

Best bet, go outside a big city to small town America. Find a place that still rents 172's for less than $100/hr. They're out there, just gotta find them.

 

[PCL_128]

How much did you spend on that King Air at GIA?

Probably about the same per hour as your mom gets per "trick."

 

[JimNtexas]

I read an article which stated that older GA aircraft are actually being turned away from some maintenance shops due to insurance liabilities.

http://www.aopa.org/whatsnew/newsitems/2007/070108maintenance.html

That's the case at Austin KAUS. The one shop there won't work on pistons except for Cirri.

 

[aviator1978]

Hey Jim,

I know of at least two A&P's at KAUS that would work on anything.

 

[JimNtexas]

Hey Jim,

I know of at least two A&P's at KAUS that would work on anything.

We use Sven from Crosswinds in Copeland. He makes housecalls.

But the only real shop is Cap Wings, and they don't want to work on riff-raff.

 

[aviator1978]

There's compass flight support and bergstrom airmotive (I think they are still called that). I know Compass will work on riff-raff. There's also a good a&p that works on Virgil Kennedy's aircraft. He'll probably work on riff raff as well.

 

[DX Rick]

Probably about the same per hour as your mom gets per "trick."

Ah yes, the old "Your Momma" jokes.

So, back to you being a GIA swine.....

 

[FlyingBuckI]

I paid $55/hr for a 152 in 1999. Made friends with a local instructor, washed airplanes in exchange for flight time, and ended up with my private for around $2500. Shortly after the FBO closed due to insurance costs. Now you have to drive at least 45 min to the nearest airport with an FBO, and they only fly new diamond aircraft for $$$.

The up side was that I became the sole instructor there for a while and made friends with all the pilots. Sucks for people starting out though. It's just not cost effective to start a new school, even if you have the money for additional a/c and an A&P on staff.

 

[hindsight2020]

And that's the point. Even if you were lucky to be able to barely manage to get your ratings in when it was affordable, now your student base has effectively shrunk, and oh by the way, your CFI compensation has not proportionally adjusted either. So you are getting subrogated in cost indirectly.

And you're right about the dwindling numbers of operations. I live in a metro area of 250K+ and the downtown airport (KDTN) is a ghost town, I can't even find the FBO or any semblance of activity, it's appalling.

 

[ex j-41]

And that's the point. Even if you were lucky to be able to barely manage to get your ratings in when it was affordable, now your student base has effectively shrunk, and oh by the way, your CFI compensation has not proportionally adjusted either. So you are getting subrogated in cost indirectly.

And you're right about the dwindling numbers of operations. I live in a metro area of 250K+ and the downtown airport (KDTN) is a ghost town, I can't even find the FBO or any semblance of activity, it's appalling.

It's job security.

 

[unreal]

I honestly don't think I could afford flight training if I'd have started now. The multi I teach in is ~$300/hour with me in it, which one of my students figured is somewhere along the lines of 8 cents per second. Most guys spend ~$14,000 for an instrument rating in the multi. Sickening.

Oh yes, and I still make $15/hour. :uzi: