146 question for Air Whiskey folks...

[91100 100 set]

Just a quick airplane question for the 146 guys. Always been a fan of that airplane, I remember riding on them between LAX and SFO on PSA (the original one of course) as a kid, and I've had the chance to ride on an Air Wisconsin 146 a few times in the last couple of years.

Always thought it was a neat plane and I've always wondered, when I see them on the ground, it looks like the flight controls are always in a nose-up, left wing down position. Is this some kind of control lock? If so, wouldn't that put the yoke right back into your gut and kind of "in the way"? Is this the case, and if so, does it get in the way much?

I also just heard that the engines are electrically started. What kind of capability does the airplane have to operate without an APU on it's own, without external power? If you end up somewhere with a broken APU and no power cart, are you dead in the water, or can you get it running on the batteries alone? Just curious.

 

[ILStoMinimums]

Just a quick airplane question for the 146 guys. Always been a fan of that airplane, I remember riding on them between LAX and SFO on PSA (the original one of course) as a kid, and I've had the chance to ride on an Air Wisconsin 146 a few times in the last couple of years.

Always thought it was a neat plane and I've always wondered, when I see them on the ground, it looks like the flight controls are always in a nose-up, left wing down position. Is this some kind of control lock? If so, wouldn't that put the yoke right back into your gut and kind of "in the way"? Is this the case, and if so, does it get in the way much?

I also just heard that the engines are electrically started. What kind of capability does the airplane have to operate without an APU on it's own, without external power? If you end up somewhere with a broken APU and no power cart, are you dead in the water, or can you get it running on the batteries alone? Just curious.

Thats interesting, I'm sure it needs some kind of bleed source to start.

 

[Skyguy]

Each of the engines has a DC powered starter for ground operations. The starter can receive electrical power from either the ship's battery or an external source like a GPU.

The elevator is free floating but is actuated by servo tabs. So you are seeing the postion of the elevator from the landing. All the other Primary controls are cable and turnbuckles.

Hope this helps, even if I am not AWAC.

 

[flap operator]

There is no bleed starting for the Bac146/avro. True, they are electrically started. We (Mesaba) normally start with the APU. If the APU is deferred, we start #4 at the gate off the external AC and then cross generator start during pushback. In over 4 years of flying this plane I've never had to DC start. But if for the very odd reason the station doesn't have ext AC or the hub has parked us at a gate with no ext AC, we can DC start with a DC cart.

As for the flight controls, there is a gust lock that we engage after landing and then remove during taxi, I guess this lock put the elevator into the position that you're talking about.


FO

 

[Simon Says]

Nit Pickers corner, for you "dummies" fans out there.

You need two batteries to start without APU, GPU, or DC cart.

We at Mesaba have only one battery installed. What about you guys at Air Willie. You guys got two?

 

[Dodge]

All the other Primary controls are cable and turnbuckles.

Close.....the rudder is hydraulic.

 

[jrod]

A few of our 146's have two batteries installed. However, I don't think the 146 can start off batteries alone (the avro may be able to). We don't have any procedure for it at AWAC and our Captains know the aircraft pretty well. The number one senority pilot at AWAC has been flying the 146 for something like 17 years.

To answer your question; without a gen online (eng 1/4 or APU), External AC power or External DC power, you are dead in the water.

We also need both TR's in order to start using an AC source. Otherwise external DC is our only option to get engines turning.

 

[Gator1999]

In over 4 years of flying this plane I've never had to DC start. But if for the very odd reason the station doesn't have ext AC or the hub has parked us at a gate with no ext AC, we can DC start with a DC cart.

Flap Operator,
Count yourself lucky that you have never had to do an external DC start. What a pain in the arse. It's one of those procedures that you hit on in initial and then never see again until it pops up on line.

Hope those CRJ's treat you guys well at Mesaba!
Take care...

 

[flap operator]

I know... I've heard horror stories about DC starts. It's definitely one of those... "Let's look it up" kind of things.



FO

 

[146guy]

Yep, can't start the 146 with just the batteries. I may be wrong (haven't payed close enough attention) but I think all of our 300's have two batteries.