135 Pft

[jstyle13]

I have the opportunity to be picked up by a company that operates several lears. They pay around 30k a year. They will hire me (1000tt 125multi) but they want me to pft for the initial. Is this common in 135 or do most charter ops front the money for you. I was told they instituted pft b/c a lot of people were bailing on them after a year or two and it wasn't cost effective. Did you guys/gals have to pft or did the company take care of that? Any advice/ideas are welcome.

Thanks

jj

 

[Andy Neill]

If I were handed such a proposal and both the employer and I agreed that two years was a reasonable amount of time to recoup training investment, I would counter with this:

Reduce my monthly salary by 1/24th of the cost of initial. At the end of two years, pay that (the full cost of initial) to me as a retention performance bonus (with accrued interest?). How about it?

 

[English]

Andy, that is really great! I love the idea!

It's also an effective counterproposal. A friend of mine was in a similar situation about six months ago. He was a 1500 hour turboprop pilot given an opportunity to get typed in a small jet, with a substantial pay raise, to fly as PIC. The problem was the company though him to be a flight risk to the airlines (yeah right!). So, they wanted him to pay for the cost of the type, broken down into monthly payments. But no matter the ethical discussions he had with almost every pilot he knows, he accepted the proposal. He now kicks himself over the whole thing and is resentful the company made him do this. I wish I had read your idea months earlier and couldn't helped him out.

So, jstyle13, learn from other's mistakes...Andy has come up with a great compromise that is actually quite positive.

 

[aroundtheblock]

Although companies are having trouble collecting from a training contract, that is what my company uses. They send and pay for us at FSI, but we have to sign a 6 month contract.

 

[Airpiraterob]

yeah people are trying to retain pilots so they at least make their training costs worthwhile. options for them? well...

staright up PFT. you pay and then work. get nothing back xcept a paycheck

promisory note. you dont pay anything unless you leave earlier than you agreed to.

reimbursed loan. you take out the loan in your name and the company pays the monthly installment as long as youre with them. you leave early? then you assume the payments.
-or-
the other version. you take out the loan to pay, and after a year with the company they give you that money back. problem is youve just made interest payments...but...you have a chunk of money from that now. you never were missing money anyway except for the first years payments...but you get those back too, pay it all off and have a little something to show for it as a lump in your account.

theres all kinds of options. the PFT and you get nothing back is just robbery. the pro-rated promissory note is the way to go. however if you leave the collection agencies they send after you usually cost the company more than the money they will get back from you. so with some places you can get away with leaving early.....its up to you tho.

 

[LR25]

I would sign a contract no problem, and I have in the past, but I would not by no means PFT.

What happens if you get let go, or company folds, will they pay you off?

There is such a thing as a "legal" contract they can get to make sure you owe them if you split.

Don't shell the money out.

Good luck.

 

[jstyle13]

Thanks

Thanks for all the replies. Appreciate the input. I've decided I am going to do it ( I had pretty much already decided before I made the post). To all of those who said no, what other choices do I really have? I know people feel that those who PFT lower the bar for all pilots, and I wish it were a perfect world and they paid all pilots what they are truly worth. But should I just keep instructing? Should I keep slowly building that 172 time making about $300 a week and hope that an airline will pick me up in these conditions? Should I apply for job at Subway and fly on the weekends? A alot of people say no to those who ask about PFT, but what else should we do? Any suggestions?

(I don't mean this to sound like I'm trying to be a smart a$$, but those of you guys who said no all had like 4000 hours and I would assume are currently employed flying somewhere- Im not and would like to be)

JJ

 

[LR25]

You know, every single one of us were there. And yes, when I was a struggling pilot trying to get that job I didnt turn to PFT like a few of my freinds did, for one I couldnt afford.

Your preaching to the chior.

Im not going to bash you for what you decide, but if people keep PFTing, that is another link in the chain of low wages and put another qualified pilot that cant PFT out of work or whatever.

It also doesnt speak much for the operator if they are requiring you to pay for something that is automatically required of them.

Like I said before, they can draw up a legal contract for you to aggree to in case you bail on them, but they choose not to do this so they dont have to cover the cost of the training. Its very transparent.

Best of luck.

 

[patq1]

Re: Thanks

I agree with LR25. Also, don't forget there is a reason why people are leaving that place. It's probably because the company is cheap in a lot of other areas besides training. If they treat people right they will stay. I too had plenty of opportunities to PFT and declined. I stayed instructing in a Tomahawk(about $500 per month) and working as a waiter at night to pay the bills. I eventually got a job flying a caravan(when I had 2000 hours) for a good company and moved on from there. Just remember what you are doing to everybody that follows. Good luck!

Pat

 

[AZaviator]

I also like Andy Neil's idea. I see nothing wrong with that. I also like the idea of signing a training contract, similar to what the airlines do. If you leave within a certain period of time, you have to pay a certain amount of money. I would think this would be reasonable enough for them, instead of having you shell out a lot of money immediately. To me, a training contract seems like they are afraid of you leaving in a short period of time due to your experience and possibility of going somewhere because of it. On the other hand, paying for your training up front looks like they are afraid of you leaving in a short period of time due to being unhappy at the job. Just my opinion though. I personally wouldn't do it, regardless if I had 400hrs, or 4,000hrs.