135 dutytimes

[cvsfly]

Yes, as long as it is 10 consecutive hours of rest, uninterupted, no company required duties (communication?), etc. We offer to get day rooms if the client wants a long day. They usually baulk at it since I quess in their eyes we are trying to squeeze more money from them. Alot of times this where the 134 1/2 s really chap my b utt. We had one day where we were already flying the company owner on a couple of 91 legs. A charter request came in shortly before we were arriving back at base. We said we could do it if; 1 we got back x time, or 2 we overnighted. This wasn't good for them since they wanted to return in between those times. They proceed to call up a corporate operator (whose owner happens also to be friends with ours - everyone knows everyone around here). It just so happens that their plane had been on basically the same schedule as ours only in a faster plane. By the time we were pulling in back home this 91 operator was leaving with our potential client. They returned much later that night, probably being "on duty" for 16-17 hours. I asked later if they had a "lease" with them. Of course they said, they were able to write up a "quick lease all legal like". Right. I was ready to do something but our owner didn't want to make waves. What is the best procedure to turn in a known illegal operation? What evidence should you present to whomever you report to?

 

[Way2Broke]

Okay, here is the situation I am talking about. A pilot gos on duty at 4am, and then gos off duty at noon. The pilot then returns to duty at 3:30pm and works until 7pm. That night the pilot gets 9 hours of rest. The pilot is operating under part 135.265 Scheduled operator. Not on-demand.

 

[cvsfly]

not familiar with scheduled ops. but my quick read of it would be OK, but I don't know if that does anything for you. I assume you would get 9 hr (consecutive) rest in the look back 24 hr and 8 hr of flying and not accounting for reduced rest provisions- at least from 1900 previous day (9 hr rest to 0400) to 1900 on the scheduled day. Dutying off for 3.5 hrs during the scheduled day - I can't see it doing anything for you. It can't be considered a rest period. Unless they pay by the "duty hour", then you are getting ripped off.

 

[Nolife]

Hey YIP, I understand that if the rule changes it could affect the way companies work but I don't think it will affect pay. Management will adjust to the new rules just as they have done in the past by passing on the cost to customers. I'm sure Ford will pay 2K more per charter for that part so you can staff more pilots in order to cover the change, and this will add to the pilot hiring boom you're waiting for in 2007 .

It would be good for everybody in the end.

 

[charter dog]

cvsfly:

What is the best procedure to turn in a known illegal operation? What evidence should you present to whomever you report to?

You want to tread very carefully here. It may be best for you to stick with flying your trips and leaving the enforcement to the FEDS. For one thing, you don't need any enemies you don't have to have. For another, it could cost you your current job if it implicates your boss in any way. Thirdly, if you take something like that on, be prepared for scrutiny of your own actions. It's not worth it. Keep your eyes open for better opportunities and quietly do your job to your own standards in the meantime. Chances are, if this is a regular practice, birdies have chirped and notes have been slipped under doors. Don't leave your fingerprints where anyone might find them. The FEDS move at their own pace and in their own ways. Word gets around. Charter company owners can rat each other out all they want. Pilots mind their own store and don't get involved in other people's affairs unless they have no choice. Take this advice for what you think it's worth and tread carefully.

Best,

 

[pilotyip]

Already too many costs

Nolife, but you add that as another cost of business on top of costs that good companies are already doing, like paying top wages in the under 100K category, training in sims and actual maintenance, makes it tuff to compete in business where not all operators bear these same costs. And many lower end operatrors will find ways around any new crew rest, if it restricts their operations. BTW I love the way you are catching on to the 2007 hiring boom, it is coming.

 

[A Squared]

Hi, Arriving late to this thread and still haven't quite digested everything. A couple of quick comments and questions;


First, WTF is "CBTCOTO" ?????? Maybe it was explained, but I missed it.


THis is interesting:

The new interp that they are discussing is proprosing that tailend ferry be counted the same as if it was revenue. This could get very interesting. There is also some talk about treating all time assigned by a 135 operator as though it was revenue flight. I'm curious how this will all shake out.

Who is they and what new interpretation are "they" discussing? WHere did you hear of this? I'd be interested to find out more about it.

The first 135 cargo company I worked for considered any duty assignment where you flew any part 135 to be all 135 and thus only 14 hrs long. That's where I get the one drop pollutes the barrel analogy. Fly 1 leg 135 and you're restricted to 14 hrs. Makes sense to me but I can't seem to find any legal opinions regarding this. Any help finding some would be greatly appreciated.

I'm pretty sure you won't find any existing interpretations which back this up, as it goes against longstanding, consistent interpretation ofh the regulations. Your comapny may have operated this way, considering all flying to be 135 if any was, butthey were certainly not *required* to do this for hte flights after the 135 flights. I think that it was good that they did this, as it would improve your work conditions, but the fact that they did this doesn't mean that they were required to do it.

 

[charter dog]

First, WTF is "CBTCOTO" ?????? Maybe it was explained, but I missed it.

A2:

That was me. I was abbreviating circumstances beyond the control of the operator as used in FARs regarding flight and duty time limitations and rest requirements and subsequent rules interpretations made by FAA legal council. Just laziness!

This thread has taken a few twists and turns, so it IS a bit a challenge to follow! I think the poster referring to "they" might be referring to the now closed aviation rulemaking committee discussion of 135 rules revisions. We all await the NPRM release to see what is in store!

Get caught up on the discussion and add your thoughts. I'm sure you have something to add.

Best,