13 days off per quarter?

[BushwickBill]

yes i know that.....but a lot of operators don't do that. Part 91k finally really put it in writing and fixed that. That is why we are pre-briefed.

But back to the point. This guy needs his 13 rest periods of 24 hours per qtr....just don't fly, tell them you are not legal, if they don't like it then they can ask their POI to trim a little fat off the regs. I can see how my original post was a bit vague. If they tell him to check in from home at 0600 then "officially" that isnt a rest period. But a lot of operators don't do that. The small operators aren't subject to that because they are unscheduled, that is why they do it "you are off until we call you" which is crap and unsafe. I did it for 16 years and suprised i'm not dead yet......sucks

The original poster hasnt described if he is 135 unscheduled or scheduled.

We are unscheduled. Unfortunitly a coworker is reading this thread. I'm sure you can guess who. So I can't really elaborate on how things are going.

There has been a little progress and if anything I can show my paper trail to the FAA if they do try and revoke my ticket. I can at least show that I requested that things are done the correct way.

I dont suppose the FAA would take the fact that there are no other jobs to run to into account and that I tried to fix things at my existing job if there is any kind of action taken?

 

[brokeflyer]

what happens is companies use the "10 hours of rest preceding a flight" trick.

You are off until they call you out......as long as that call comes 10 hours after your last flight then it's "legal".....safe?....not a chance. But that is the ay it's done. 91K fixed that loophole.

 

[BEfly]

If you couldnt drink a beer that day on the chance you could get a flight, then you were not off.

Thats how I see it. And thats what I say to settle disputes.
It's difficult to handle these situations.... I know. You need to stand up and enforce the law but at the same time you don't want to bite the hand that feeds for fear of being put on the street. Not a good thing these days. I know alot of guys who are in similar situations currently among several operators. We used to be too. We have a new DO now who is by the book and the management/nonpilot/bean counters butt heads with him all the time. I'm wondering when he will cave.

I know why guys don't report this crap to the FAA: They fear they will get raked over the coals. They may get violated and fired.

Around a year ago our flight department got rocked by the FAA. (You'd of thought we crashed a plane or at least bent one). This was all about paperwork, and the POI cracked down on us. Security program wasn't up to snuff, sloppy records, weight and balance forms, etc. All these things needed revamped, I agreed. You know what their number one beef with us was? DUTY LOGS. All this put a damper on operations for a while and cost management a lot of $$$. Every things been peachy since. Not too hard considering we are doing 1/3 of the flying we were doing last year. We've been a well oiled machine. But I can smell the rain! The management storm clouds rolling in on this deal, flying is picking back up and management wants to cash in. Owners are getting restless and putting pressure on the department, but the pilots need to watch their a$$es. Its been months since the run-in with the feds and our POI has turned another direction, but like the mentality of most people in this country, they (the guys that write the checks upstairs) have pretty much forgotten. Pilots refuse to fly, planes don't move, clients get pissed, money is lost, management threatens pilots, pilots cave. We lose.

Be safe. Be legal.

BTW, I have 3 friends who are very talented pilots who are dealing with violations in the last 4 months. For stupid stuff. Landing w/o clearance, TFR bust, and an altitude bust. A 4th just got a DUI yesterday. Altitude guy is gonna be alright.

 

[woog315]

This thread is confusing because brokeflyer seems to be making the same argument like 5 different ways. You're saying we're reading you wrong, but you are specifically addressing the 13 days of rest rule and said "you do realize that if you are "on-call" 24/7 and they dont use you, that day just became a scheduled day off." but also say you didnt say that.... and the thread is clearly a question about the 13 day rule and how it functions, but anyways---

having been on exceptionally long benders with little or no sleep, I agree with brokeflyer, in spirit, regarding the 10 hours of rest rule, but there is no way to make on-call flying workable by strictly interpreting the 10 hours of rest in a 24hr period rule, I'm not aware of any company that does- though some get closer than others(like 12 hours on call, 12 hours off every day... but still, what happens if you get called out on a 6 hour trip on hour 9 of being on call? you bust the regs if strictly interpreted)

 

[brokeflyer]

I said there are operators that do that practice. If they don't use you then that is an off day. A lot of them do that. Is it right? no. They can also call you fri night and say "there are no trips tomorrow, you are off"...there is 1 day towards the 12.

If you get a 6 hour trip at hour 9 of being "ON" duty then you cannot do the trip. That is why most operators just leave you off duty and call you when they need you. The way the regs read, all they need to show is 10 hours off preceding.

Where I worked, I had every other weekend OFF, no pager, phone off the hook, etc. That took care of the 13 days per qtr problem. But a lot of places dont do that, and if you deny that it happens then you really need to come back to reality.

Part 91k fixed all these problems, it would be nice to see them fix 135 the same way. It may save some lives.

 

[woog315]

I think there are very, very few places that don't offer the 13 pre-scheduled days off. The 10 hour of rest in a 24hr period is broken by essentially everyone.

We've derailed significantly, but the original question is about the 13 days off- as far as I know the Fed enforces this one pretty strictly and there is little to no room for grey area interpretations. If his company isn't providing him with that, he should be on the phone with his DO getting it resolved pronto, and if they want to start threatening his job etc- go to the FAA...

 

[brokeflyer]

yes he needs to do that.

 

[CapnVegetto]

Bushwhack Bill.....send me a PM. I have an FAA document that I will forward to you. It will DEFINTELY give you some ammunition. Anybody else that wants a copy of it, send me a PM and you'll get it.

The 135 regs are HORRIBLE, and they need a revamping way more than the 121 regs.

 

[pilotyip]

You have to apply the beer rule, if you can not drink beer for 16 hours, it is not duty free time.

 

[woog315]

You have to apply the beer rule, if you can not drink beer for 16 hours, it is not duty free time.

This is an old thread, but does USA Jet work that way? I was under the impression you guys were on call 24 hrs just like the rest of the on-demand world, even though regs specifically forbid it.