13 days off per quarter?

[brokeflyer]

yes i know that.....but a lot of operators don't do that. Part 91k finally really put it in writing and fixed that. That is why we are pre-briefed.

But back to the point. This guy needs his 13 rest periods of 24 hours per qtr....just don't fly, tell them you are not legal, if they don't like it then they can ask their POI to trim a little fat off the regs. I can see how my original post was a bit vague. If they tell him to check in from home at 0600 then "officially" that isnt a rest period. But a lot of operators don't do that. The small operators aren't subject to that because they are unscheduled, that is why they do it "you are off until we call you" which is crap and unsafe. I did it for 16 years and suprised i'm not dead yet......sucks

The original poster hasnt described if he is 135 unscheduled or scheduled.

 

[woog315]

yes i know that.....but a lot of operators don't do that. Part 91k finally really put it in writing and fixed that. That is why we are pre-briefed.

But back to the point. This guy needs his 13 rest periods of 24 hours per qtr....just don't fly, tell them you are not legal, if they don't like it then they can ask their POI to trim a little fat off the regs. I can see how my original post was a bit vague. If they tell him to check in from home at 0600 then "officially" that isnt a rest period. But a lot of operators don't do that. The small operators aren't subject to that because they are unscheduled, that is why they do it "you are off until we call you" which is crap and unsafe. I did it for 16 years and suprised i'm not dead yet......sucks

The original poster hasnt described if he is 135 unscheduled or scheduled.

I work for a pretty bottom of the barrel small 135 unscheduled operator and what you're saying is wrong. The OPs company is breaking a rule that most companies follow. If you're on call, you're not on rest- period. You should have 13 scheduled days off per quarter. They cannot retroactively make days where you didn't work but were on call your days off. If you worked for a company for 16 years with no scheduled days off... sorry, but you're completely retarded.

 

[brokeflyer]

you miss read my post. I had every other weekend off.

the "dumb" part was sitting at home "off" then get a call and go for 14 hours.

that is the norm.

 

[rice]

you miss read my post. I had every other weekend off.

the "dumb" part was sitting at home "off" then get a call and go for 14 hours.

that is the norm.

broke,
YOU are missing the point. It doesn't matter what YOU did for how many years. And according to the FAA lawyers it doesn't matter whether it's scheduled or unscheduled, REST MUST BE PROSPECTIVE.
Not saying your example isn't what actually happens in the real world but it is technically in violation of the legal interpretation of the regs.
Just because you did it that way and it is/was the norm, doesn't make it legal or correct.

 

[rice]

WRONG!!!!

it don't say that in the reg......it says (f) The certificate holder must provide each flight crewmember at least 13 rest periods of at least 24 consecutive hours each in each calendar quarter.

That is for "unscheduled".

You are thinking of "scheduled" operations......those need to be prospective.

I know what your saying though, it's the same as leaving a pilot at home waiting for a trip, they call that time "rest" but in reality if you are available to be called then you are not "off"...you are "on".

They just never enforce it because of all the grey areas.

I wasn't referencing the reg, rather the FAA's legal interpretation of it. (see link posted previously)
And I am quite aware of what I am thinking. No I was not thinking "scheduled". Best not to assume.

 

[brokeflyer]

i think we're talking about 2 diffrent things.

I know the 13 days off are to be in advance. But a lotta places dont do that.

What i was talking about was sitting at home "available" to be called but off duty until that call comes. That is very common because all they have to show is at least 10 hours off within the last 24 hours by the planned completion of a trip.

That was really crappy duty.

 

[gulfstream2345]

Scheduled time off

From a former Inspector..... Legal opinions have proven that the 13 days/quarter must be scheduled off in advance. If the company gives you more days off than that then you are doing great. But keep in mind, they have to give you those 13 days off. If the company doesn't comply with that and you continue to fly then you too are in violation. One thing you learn at training with the FAA is that any deliberate violation of the FARs=revocation, or at least the recommendation of revocation. The 135 certificate holder might not get that but that is what would be recommended for the pilot. Do you really want to take that chance? Revocation means all the money and hard work to get those ratings is now wasted as you will lose all of your certificates for one year and you will have to re-apply, take new writtens and new checkrides for any ratings you want to get.

The FAA, me in particuliar when I was one, took the 13 days off very seriously and when we found a blatant violation we took serious action. Even without an accident or incident then what happens if a disgruntled employee drops a dime on the company. The pilots that fly without the required scheduled days off will all be in violation. I know of one company in the Houston area that totally disregards the rule and the pilots complain all the time but apparently not to the FAA.

I would say that if the company isn't complying with that rule then it is highly likely that there are other serious issues. If they don't comply then you best run as quickly as possible to the next job. Even if you leave, you will still be at risk forever if the FAA tries to do a violation. I know that is not good news but it is true.

 

[rice]

i think we're talking about 2 diffrent things.

I know the 13 days off are to be in advance. But a lotta places dont do that.

What i was talking about was sitting at home "available" to be called but off duty until that call comes. That is very common because all they have to show is at least 10 hours off within the last 24 hours by the planned completion of a trip.

That was really crappy duty.

This situation must also be prospective. If you are REQUIRED to be "available" then you are NOT in rest. If you are not in rest, then the clock is running. Then you will be "available" until you must go back into rest to meet the 10 hrs off in the last 24. The only way to comply with the regulation is to have a mutually understood period of rest before that period begins.
Again, I know it doesn't happen that way a most places in the real world but thats how it's SUPPOSED to work.

 

[brokeflyer]

This situation must also be prospective. If you are REQUIRED to be "available" then you are NOT in rest. If you are not in rest, then the clock is running. Then you will be "available" until you must go back into rest to meet the 10 hrs off in the last 24. The only way to comply with the regulation is to have a mutually understood period of rest before that period begins.
Again, I know it doesn't happen that way a most places in the real world but thats how it's SUPPOSED to work.

yup...its unfortunate.

 

[414Flyer]

If you couldnt drink a beer that day on the chance you could get a flight, then you were not off.